In numerous threads over the years, we have talked about the Volare IFS and its tendency to have a slushy ride when installed on an effie. The ride for my truck, on the other hand, is on the firm side. One theory from 'fenders was that because my unit is adjusted far up towards its highest setting, that perhaps the torsion bars don't operate at the designed "flex." (Dewayne, sorry if I misstated that.) Another thought I have heard over the years, is that there may have been different diameters of torsion bars depending on the original vehicle and motor weight that they were designed for. (In a recent post, fenders stated that he believes that there was no heavier bars, that they are all the same. Again Dewayne, sorry if I misinterpreted your statement.) My IFS is actually out of a 78 Dodge (Aspen I believe). The torsion bars' diameter is 1.15". The anti-sway bar is 0.955". Can anybody tell me if these are normal sizes? Or maybe, it came from a police unit eqipped with heavy-duty components? Any thoughts? John

 

Jag,

I'm beginning to doubt if there was ever any HD components available on the Mopar police and taxi cabs. When I entered into the Volare front suspension I imagined there would be a host of stuff out there since so many of them were used for police and taxi use. But, I have found absolutely no reference to police or taxi parts in anything part I have tried to buy for my suspension...not even HD shocks seem to exist for police or taxi use. That makes me think that the suspensions under these cars must have been very HD in their standard application to stand up under such abuse.

Vern

 

std torsion bars: 4014132 and 4014133

Police torsion bars: 4014288 and 4014289

1 3/16" front x.h.d. shocks: 4057093

front sway bar, police: 4014126; and standard 4014033

 

John

Here's a recap of what I am prettyu confident of. A lot of it is in the Ride and Handling Epic.

There seems to be one and only one T-bar. Vintage Mopar manuals seem to bear this out. From 1976 to 1989. One T-bar. Didn't matter if you had a 3000# car or a 3800# loaded to the nines late 80s Chrysler.

Hellfish was present for one such discussion on a Mopar forum, but there was no real proof offered of a different bar. Argument that the difference had nothing to do with spring rate difference. In any case, not worth worrying much about, because you aren't going to find one even if there is such a thing.

I won't comment of different shocks offered by Chrysler. But there are absolutely aftermarket companies that make firmer shocks. KYB and Konis for sure. Probably several others. I may be going on a test flight with some yet this afternoon. If you don't hear back from me, then I probably crashed so don't them.

Sway bars. Early on, almost everything I have found seems to have the 15/16" bar. Then they started using the suspension on stuff heavier than a Volare. The bars were definitely available in 1", and 1 1/8" I've also seen a 1 1/6th listing at one time. The cars became very populur as police cars. Almost all squad cars seemed to have got the 1 1/8" Some of the heavier non-squads cars probably got the 1 1/8 too, or sizes in between. Station wagons varied through the years. About the only thing near certain is police cars almost invariably got a 1 1/8. If you find some, please get two.

Aftermarket definitely currently makes swaybars in 1 1/8 and 1 1/4. But there are not many sources. The price on the 1 1/4" will scare you.

Lets talk K frames. I learned this. There were a few instances of cracking in squad cars. If you installed according to the No Limit install video, you don't even care because they addressed it in the install technique. If you have a late 80s donor, you really don't care because Chrysler added a little extra welding and cured the problem. But bottomline is the donors from about 86 on on slightly superior.

And Vern is right. The suspension is HD for our use. The Mopar guys routinely stuff Mopar big blocks under the hood, biggie size the sway to 1 1/8, raise the T-bars up a bit to account and go.

Biggest drawback is Chryslers intended purpose of this suspension. Achieve a big car ride in a medium sized car. Cop cars were an afterthought. They nailed their goal. Get some suspension weight savings from the late 60s and early 70s when Mopars were absolute land barges. Use the T-bar for a strut brace.

John, next time you are under your truck. Get a measurement between the lower control arm and the rubber bumper that it would hit if you bottomed out. There is a generally accepted range for best handling. It's not very large, and I don't have it handy now. I should remember , because I just checked to see if mine is in the sweet spot. That measurement will tell us if you are trying to snap your bars. The only other thought I have are the T-bar bushings. You either replaced them already, or they are toast. That will destroy your ride quality. Squirming T-bars couldn't help your handling any either.

 

John

It occurred to me I may have not successfully answered your question. First, if someone quotes a different diameter T-bar, it depends where you measure as they are not the same size throughout the bar.

It's agreed upon here that torsion bars are a constant rate spring, and within reason, there should not be a change in actual spring rate when you alter your preload. Changes in preload will however make the car handle and ride differently. Don't let the fact that you aren't hitting your suspension bumpers on the top or bottomside fool you. You can be way off Mopar spec and never bottom out. The suspension has a ton of travel. If you examine your Volare closely, it will make your head hurt if you really stop and realize all the things many things that a preload adjustment/ride height adjustment affects. Center of gravity, control arm angles. If you get way off spec, you are preloading your short armed swaybar too. As AX explained, it should roll forward when both wheels change together. But you could experience a different feel when you hit a bump with one wheel and you have it stretched at some weird angle from incorrect suspension height. It seems agreed that you can over preload a T-bar and get a firm feel. You should probably verify you are not doing that, because running a T-bar at near failure sure doesn't sound like a safe thing to do. Better to get tires and wheels that correctly fit when you can.

Bottomline is it is practically impossible for an F100/Volare to ride too stiff. You almost certainly got something not quite right we need to find.

A picture of your truck with your wheel off might solve this. But the jack needs to be under the control arm so we can see how it looks loaded. this. And that measurement I posted is valuable. It is the result of many Mopar owners real driving experience. They have messed with these far more than us and know what really works with this suspension. It's the best place to start on preload adjustment.

 

"It's agreed upon here that torsion bars are a constant rate spring"

Im not sure that all people understand what this means? Because it is constant does not mean that the spring rate doesn't change. What I mean is, that with a progressive rated spring, there is area made softer than others, right. With a constant spring, each coil is rated the same (using coils to help explain. I do know what a t-bar is. I have 65 Barracuda that I play with). Now once you multiply that with the number of coils it adds up. In the case of the torsion bars, the more the bar is turned, the more it is, in sence, multiplied. Or the more it is turned, the more it will want to return to its original shape. Thus a firmer ride at a taller ride height.

 

Thanks for the responses guys.

Dewayne, this weekend I will be able to get that measurement and report back. I'll take a whack at the picture too. Thanks, John

 

Hellfish,

What you just descibed is a progressive rate spring, which a T-bar is not. We had this discussion here, and elsewhere. And you know that I agree with you on what really matters. If you start winding the T-bars around you definitely affect the way the car/truck feels. WITHIN REASON! Any spring will fail if you load it enough. I can't explain it, I'm wasting no more energy even thinking about that part of it. I know I can tweak around on the preload and effectively get about what I want without throwing away the rules. You can effectively play with the way the thing rides and handles to a small degree without spending money. That's a wonderful thing and it's all that really matters when you cut to the chase.

What really matters to me is exchanging info with other F100 Volare owners on what works and doesn't. I, MercChuck and whoever else with a Volare that cares to, are going to exchange accurate info until we nail this thing down.

And I am liking my new shocks a lot so far. But it occurred to me when I got in the cab my seat was still at the interior shop. My real shock and handling test is going to have to wait until I get the five gallon bucket a little more secure. But it's unmistakably firmer, and that's clearly what I need.

 

When I first got my 53 drivable and drove it around the neigborhood, it had a nice cushy ride. It also sat down real nice, looked good cause I like em low. Took it to the alignment guy[ hot rodder] and he cranked the bars to increase the bump stop gap to what he thought was adaquate. It no longer sits as low as I want it, and it does ride a good deal firmer. This is the reason I have not installed the dropped spindles. I am afraid that if it is then too low, tightening the bars to raise it will result in even firmer. Right now I am just driving to see if it settles in. It does not ride "harsh" really, just firmer than I would like. You guys are fascinating. Joe

 

For the sake of discussion, a coil spring is actually a torsion bar bent into a coil!
A constant rate spring is one where if you put a certain load on it say 200# it compresses a fixed amount say 1" (this would be a called a 200# spring). If you add another 200# of load it will compress another 1".
A progressive rate spring is one where if you put the 200# load on it it compresses 1-1/2" then when you add the second 200# it only compresses 1". Each additional load would compress it even less. The classic example of a progressive rate spring is the multileaf spring. Each leaf is in itself a constant rate spring, but as the spring is loaded additional leaves come into use effectively increasing the stiffness as the load increases, hence progressive rate.
If I haven't confused you yet, stick around!

 

Thanks AX, the progressive rate spring definition is one of the few things that seems straight forward. That's what Hellfish basically means. That's also what a Volare T-bar acts like when you wind it up. But not nearly to the degree a true progressive does. I am starting to wonder if the factory preload does get you into the edge of where the bar loses elasticity when the spring is being worked pretty good, like a hard bump or turn. Now on the bottom end of the range is what I can't understand (and I know I just said I wouldn't sweat it an hour ago) Most Volare guys just have to try something when you do your install. I did it the first time on accident. He takes the slack out of suspension and then tightens the bars up just a couple more inches of lift. Then drops it down off the jack to check out that magazine look. Looks like air bags with no air. No way you could drive it. It's like you have 50 pound coils on the front. Not to mention the control arms are at some stupid angle. And you need another jack so you can get the first one out from under the truck.

Thanks Joe. I don't know about fascinating, but we're certainly predictable. We can't get off a subject around here when it gets a little momentum. And the spindles should not hurt you. You'll be in the dirt where you want and the Volare preload adjusted correctly. No reason in the world that should yield a harsh ride if your suspension components and bushings are all in good repair.

 

I have some Volare shock info to share. I just returned from a short ride. I wanted to see if my braking nosedive syndrome was improved. Since it is easy to simulate and was very severe. I can't yet comment on a highway speed corner due to weather, and my hokey seat. But my truck would even lean on part of my long mountainous driveway at 25mph. Affectionately referred to by the locals as "turn two" I even planted some obstacles in the drive and hit them at lower speeds. I had Gabriel Red Ryder shocks before.

Anyway, it's a different truck today. I'm ecstatic any shock could make this much difference. And an affordable one at that. The ride is not harsh. To put it in a few words, the truck is now "under control". The front and rear seems MUCH more in harmony now. I also used a Vette shock in the rear. The rear is now more acceptable, but just doesn't have the travel the front has. I think my rear springs of unknown vintage are showing their age. Your rear shock mount configuration will determine your choices in a matching shock.

Keep in mind my application. 302, C-4 and very heavy wheels/tires. I suspect there is enough valving left there for a heavier drivetrain though. If anyone else cares to try them, the Volare shocks are KYB-KG4528 Gas Adjusts. The Vette rears are KYB KG5501, but don't run out and order the rears without a few measurements. I drilled the metal sleeves out of mine. If you can run an inch more shock in the rear, I'd recommend you do it, instead of the rear shock I used. I have seen them priced from $30 to almost $50 each. Summit seems to be the best price at about $30. Don't confuse them with KYBs GR2 line which is a cheap and softly valved series. I expect they would perform like a low buck Monroe or Gabriel. KYB.com

And my KYBs will be getting some paint. Although they appear well constructed, they are plain white and the decal looks cheezy cheap. The chipmunks were pointing and laughing when I drove by. That won't do.

I'll add the recommendation to the IFS Thread Volare section if we get any more votes for them down the road.

 

FF That's GREAT to hear! Yes good shocks are one of the best improvements you can make. OEM shocks are the worse. The manufacturers buy the cheapest shocks they can get, they are only concerned with that they work off the showroom floor. Most people don't drive their vehicle hard enough to notice that they are going away and are completely dead in 20-30K miles because they WANT that bouncy waterbed ride.

I do worry tho about you removing the bushing linings in the rear. I think you're going to be eating up the rubber pretty quick. A more engineered solution is needed, but you already know that.

 

"I do worry tho about you removing the bushing linings in the rear. I think you're going to be eating up the rubber pretty quick. A more engineered solution is needed, but you already know that."

AX

Actually wear something out on my truck from lot's of use? Now that's a new, and welcomed concept for me. But yes, I am on ther verge of long trips so it needs to be correct.

Guess I left part of it out. Rear shocks, on one end I removed the sleeve, punched out the rubber about 1/8 and installed a new larger sleeve from the hardware store. I do have a sleeve that is a bit shorter than the shouldered portion of the mount stud now though. I left it loose for now because I believe I may have had some binding before. A washer of a very specific size is going to be required to keep the shocks from walking around on the mount. I left them a bit loose so I could be absolutely sure I wasn't inducing any stiffness in the rear, by inhibiting the ability of the shock to rotate at the eye.

Another solution would be to chuck the upper shock mount stud into a vice or lathe and turn it down from 5/8 to 1/8". (Others may already have a 1/2" shouldered stud?) Procuring an affordable, bolt on right out of the box shock for a lowered truck is a tough find. I didn't want to buy the wrong valving just to avoid 15 minutes of inconvenience.

 

Dewayne, I measured the distance from the rubber stop to the lower A arm as promised. It comes out to 2.4 inches with the truck at normal stance. Is this distance in the acceptable ranage you were talking about? I took some pix also with the wheel removed and a jack holding the A arm at normal elevation. I will post them later.

I have a need for a clarification:

You said "He takes the slack out of suspension and then tightens the bars up just a couple more inches of lift." This is confusing to me. Isn't the torsion bar at constant tension no matter what the elevation is? When we alter the position of the torsion bar, does the rating of the bar not remain the same? I thought that the difference we sometimes report after changing the ride height was due to the fact that we are altering the configuration of the bars. I can understand the ride changing if the angle of effect on the torsion is changed. It seems to me that the closer the t-bar is to parrallel with the ground, the better (softer) it will perform. Does this make any since? I know this is a long thread, but it is starting to sink in. Thanks, John