i have been trying to start the cleveland in my 55 f100, needl;ess to say i had to walk away n have a beverage n think about it. i have installed fresh heads, oil pump, n a mild cam from paw with lifters. i have a performer rpm, holly 650, new oil pump, getting fuel, tried my mallory unilite n wasnt getting spark so i put in the mallory dual point with a mallory hyfire 6a. i was getting a good spark then, a little intermittent til i installed new points and new coil, and cleaned up my connections. i get a pop out the exhaust one way, get one out the intake the other way, brought it to tdc, made sure i wasnt 180 off, i am getting spark but it wont pop off, it seems like it wants to go, n i will get a pop out the intake n exhaust if i have it in the wrong place, so it will spark., i have primed, pumped etc. i have the same ssi cam that is in my 351w so i figured it would be a configuration i could live with. i have the 351w firing order, 13726548, and am pretty sure it wasn't a 302 order grind. it is i think a 204/210 duration @ .50 and under .5 lift. i could get the specs from my records if it helps. i was thinking about putting a good pertronix i have out in the garage in it to see if that will get it going. i increased the gap to .050, it didnt seem like it sparked on the coil wire to a ground so well til i increased the distance, i could get that spark to jump a inch or better. i cant think of much else, i have it well grounded n have checked n double checked, usually i can atleast get them to pop off. this one has me wracking my brain, i have tried moving it one tooth at a time, and had the needle all around the board i was so confused. compression seems good but i haven't checked it, any ideas?

 

Innecity -

I run a 351C with a Mallory Magnetic Pulse, the same manifold and an Edelbrock 600 cfm in my 56.

You really need to be sure of the cam's firing order. What you show (13726548) is the correct firing order for the 351C and 351W, but my books show a firing order of 15426378 for the 302. Look at your records and make sure what cam you got in there. It certainly would explain the problem and why you get popping out the intake then the exhaust.

Before you go to a different ignition, get that paperwork on the cam and, if you need to, call the manufacturer to make sure of what you've got.

 

thats what i was thinking, just calling up paw and asking questions. i had a 302ho cam in my 302 once and that uses the 351w firing order, it ran but 4 of the cylindrs were firing on the wrong stroke, i at least knew right away what it was. that will probaly be the next thing i take a good try i think. once i hear it run my motivation will fire and the rest seems downhill to me, i have the exhaust on and all i have to do is hotwire the lights, add a few bolts to the fenders and get a driveshaft,

 

This was very similar to what happened to me with my '84 302. All it would do is pop. It took me awhile to find out I was 180' out and your supposed to drop the dizzy in a TDC and rotate to 10', not drop in at 10' and rotate so it lines the rotor with cap. Then it only fire on four cylinders and then found out the engine was an HO. Boy did I have a smile on my face when that thing roared to life! (no exhaust, just headers)

 

Boy does this sound familar. Since your getting fuel, you can eliminate the fuel pump, carb etc. It sounds like you have enough spark, so changing to the pertronix won't change anything. It does sound like a timing problem. I installed a gear drive on my 302 and it was off. The gear itself has three settings, one is advance timing, normal and retard. I had mine on advance and it wouldn't fire for anything. Without pulling the cam again, you should be able to see your firing order with the valve train. Pull the covers. When turning the crank, starting at TDC, move the crank a quarter turn and observe which valves are open or closed. It will go in sequence with your distributor, move the crank another quarter turn and the next sequence of valves will open or close. In other words, 15426378. On TDC, #1 should be open a quarter turn, #5 will open, and so forth. Make sure your valves are adjusted properly also. I usually go zero lash and then give it a half turn more. Take your time and don't frustrated, that's when things get messed up. I'd put money something not right with the timing. If it looks good, while cranking the engine, try moving the distributor either advance or retard to see if that make a difference, the distributor may be off a tooth or so also. Check the wiring to see if #1 cylinder wire lines up with the rotor at the #1 port on the cap. Let us know what you find.

 

Check the compression to make sure valves aren't standing open. I have had my hydraulic lifters pump up a little more while trying to start several times.

 

me n my old man were out putzing with it pretty hard today, we pulled the plugs n had wet plugs, then we cranked in new plugs after drying the cylinders with a torch.... we had a bad connection on one of the wires on the dual point dist, and it was messing with us, we left it at running off one point set and the mallory hyfire, we did a compression check on #1, 30 lb's, thats telling me something but wasnt sure what.... so i tore off the timing cover and saw the timing marks on... but the set peg on the cam is on the bottom of the cam and in my 78 ford truck manual it is on the top... i did flip it around even though this put the timing mark on top of the sprocket.. turned it over by hand a few times and then cranked it, i am still getting 30-40 lbs compression,


i have a semi new set of lifters in it right now, if they are pumped up, what do i do? it is possible.. i used a socket on a bit in my drill to prime the engine oil pump before starting. it seemed like a good idea at the time. i had a problem with some stuck piston rings from the motor sitting for a year on my garage floor. it was hard to get turning over, seized, but i broke it loose.

 

the cam is ssi # 10329
204-214 dur @ .050 270/280 dur
.484 .510 lift
112 lobe cen

 

Ok, I'm going to ask what may seem like stupid questions so bare with me.
1. Are you sure the cam is properly installed.
2. How are you finding TDC.

 

After reading your threads I have to ask what you are doing? You say you put a slightly modified cam in and then you say you have a slightly used set of lifters. If you put a set of used lifters in with a new cam you more than likely will slice off the lobes on the cam because the edges of the lifter will be too sharp as the lifter comes around on its lift stroke. If you put in a new cam you need to put in new lifters. I had a student one time that put a new cam in their grain truck and didn't replace the lifters. He drove it into town with a load of grain and they had to pull it home. It didn't make six miles. If you have had the timing chain cover off did you check to see that the timing marks are properly positioned when in the No. 1 TDC. If so you should be safe in putting the front end together again and put the distributor in place. You say that you are placing the wires in the proper order but have you determined the proper rotaion of the distributor. All too often the simple things are what is overlooked. Good Luck

Gear Up

 

I have to agree with Gear UP. You always want to use new lifters, they are reasonably cheap too. Your old cam will wear the lifters in various ways which is different from the new cam. It may work with the used lifters but its not a good idea. I think you did the same thing on the timing gear that I did. Its very important that you have TDC on the timing mark with #1 cyclinder at TDC. Then find the little arrow mark on the gear, the peg portion of the cam should go there, be careful, mine gear had advance and retard settings also, I referred to my stock chain to see what was going on. Then your crank mark (which should be in the up position) needs to me pointing at the gear on your cam.
I think the wet plugs may be from gas, if you pump the gas pedal while cranking the motor and it doesn't start, your plugs are going to look wet from the gas, if its Oil? I don't want to go there.
As for the 30 lbs pressure, I suspect you may have a bad compression ring from when the engine was frozen and broken free. It's really important on a frozen engine to saturate the cylinder with tons of oil not to damage the rings. I hope I'm wrong. Otherwise, I'd check the valves for propering seating. Unfortunately this part of getting the engine to run is a pain. Good luck.
Inner- I was running the Mallory dual point also, I had nothing but headaches with it. I bought the Pertronix unit which pops right in the Mallory distributor, no more points or condenser. I love it. The truck fires right up and runs nice. Just a suggestion.

 

I'm sorry that you are having trouble with this engine. I hope I didn't come down too hard in my last thread. If you are having trouble with compression and you have new heads you need to look at the status of the rings or the cylinders. While you had the heads off did you at least measure the cylinders to check the taper of the walls, do a visual check for grooves? It is difficult to come up with the funds at times but it seems to me you are having trouble finding fire in the hole because there is a problem with the holes themselves. If you were to take all the plugs out and do a compression check with the cylinders dry and then squirt oil into the cyliders and repete the process and compare the readings you may be able to determine how much is getting past the rings. Another test is to get a fitting for the air hose that will screw into the spark plug hole and with each cylinder in the TDC postion have a full Hundred pounds flowing in and have a gage read what is staying in the cylinder. The difference will give an efficiancy reading. I also suggest that you listen thriugh the intake and exhaust manifolds and the valve covers to determine where the pressure is leaking through. If the noise is most through the intake you know its an intake valve and if the noise is out the exhaust its an exaust valve and if the noise is most noticable from the crackcase it is coming past the rings. I know it is extra work but it appears to me you have something seriously wrong that needs to be addressed. Good Luck

Gear Up

 

i was finding tdc by taking the plug out of #1
the lifters were new out of a rebuilt motor that had the cam takin out for a roller cam.
i was sure i was hearing the puff into the exhaust mostly. i am positive i have the timing marks dead on and even compared the old gear to the new one. i have it set now were i am most positive it should be. i am thinking i should just take the lifters out n get a new set, i had them sitting in the box on the shelf for a while now. i am mostly thinking the valves are hanging open just enough, i didnt have any ridge on the cylinder and the motor ran fine before. i know i had some stuck rings from the motor sitting, but i was hoping it wasnt bad enought to where they would reseat after i got it running. i know it has to be staring me right in the face what i did n making me feel stupid.... guess i better go pull a valve cover. retrace my steps.

 

It definitely is frustrating when the machines don't work. When you set the distributor in and set the initial timing how did you set it up? If you have the harmonic balancer mark set at eight or ten degrees before top dead center you should be in the ballpark to start up the engine. Take the distributor and locate where the no. one plug wire is on the cap and get the rotor to point a little earlier so when you drop the distributor into the timing cover the gears will mesh and bring the rotor around to the poper position. Take a test light or a multi meter and connect between the points. when looking at the points determine if they are open or closed. If open rotate the distributor housing clockwise until they close. This is assuming the distributor rotates clockwise. The test light should be on or the multi meter needle moved to the right. Then rotate the housing counterclockwise just enough to cause the light to go off or cause the meter to drop to zero. Snug down the distributor and try to start the engine. I talked with my local machinist about your cam and he tells me that you should check the number on the cam and make sure it is the right one for your engine and then find out what the firing order is for that application. Orders changed in certain years for certain applications so you need to get all the the information you can on your cam. Good Luck.

Gear Up

 

actually i think you already helped me figure it out... the rings are stuck. i put some atf in the cylinder and screwed the compression gauge in. it came up to 180. i started spraying pb blaster penetrant down the carb and it was getting past the rings and i could see it floating in the oil in the front of the pan. if it was a valve it wouldnt be pouring it into the oil. i scoured the cylinders with a pad before putting it together but i figured the rings would recut n re seat, they are probaly sludged up or something. i was hearing a click.. click .. click.. for about a min or so after i sprayed a can of penetrant down the carb while turning it over. i will let it sit for a while then i will go n check all the cylinders. i probaly am in worse shape than i thought and only asking for trouble. it ran when i took it out, but i guess when i hosed the block off, all the crap settled in the rings. needless to say i am pretty bummed if i have to pull it again, two steps forward... start all over...lol, but if i can get enough cylinders to pop off n cooperate, when it is running and warmed up at 3500 rpms the rings will seat or break in hopefully, then run a little mystery oil or seafoam.