I understand that the 460 started life back in the late 60's and died off in the mid / late 90's but are all the blocks the same?

I know about the 4 bolt main 429 block, but I'm thinking more about interchange of old 70's block on new 88+ heads.

Are they the same?

thanks, KarlJay.

 

there is a deck height difference of approx .02 from the 60s blocks to the 80s blocks but other than that they are equal, and infact it is funny you brought this up today as I just returned from a "block summit" in Cuba MO put on by Dave Mclain, and Wes litterall (of team 385, and team 335 engine masters challenge fame) anycase we wanted to see if there was a difference in the blocks through the years as far as cyl wall thickness and such. and we found that in general the myths that the DoVE-a blocks are thicker or the D9TE blocks were thinner etc is just that a myth none of the blocks that were sonic tested (36 total blocks of all configurations) were sonic checked, and the truth is they all have atleast one thin cyl even the Boss 9 block that was tested, and in truth there wasn't a nickles worth of difference in them for overbore capabilities. There was the differences of 4 bolts on cj blocks, and thicker main webbing on the DOVE-A blocks and longer cyls on the D9TE (good for running strokers) More info will be posted at a later date as it becomes available or you can check out the 385 series engine form on network 54

 

Monsterbaby,
It was great talkin to you yesterday at the "summit". I got home about 2 am. We didn't leave until 12:30. I have to make another set of motor mounts for a friend here so I will have some shortly.

 

the 68-73 blocks have a higher nickle content, and thus wear less, and are less prone to distortion.

 

It was a good time for all there and great talking to you also. just let me know on the mounts whenever you have them. I ended up leaving Cuba about 8am, man was it a long day but lots of good info.
And whd507, that is another one of those Myths first off there wasn't a change in 73 the change was done in 71, and it was a deck hiegth change second since these blocks were cast in more than one foundry during there entire run they wouldn't never have had the same iron/nickle content based on year but rather based on facitlity cast at, and since all three of the facilities also cast other blocks people would make the same claim on those engines also, and the only ones I have heard of with higher nickle content were mexican 302 blocks, and austrailian cleveland blocks, and the 385 series engines were not cast in either of those places. The higher nickle content blocks were cast that way due to what ore was avaliable locally not due to any choice made by Ford. Also if the early blocks had a different type of Iron bieng used the weights of the blocks would have been different, and one of the things that was noticed by me was they were pretty consistant throughout the entire range, ie my block weighed 220lbs which was pretty much in the middle of the road we found that the early blocks could be lighter or heavier but none varies by more than 10lbs. The only advantages found were the features that were changed such as priority oiling on the mains in the Boss 9 blocks, thicker webs in the dove-a blocks, 4 bolt mains on the cj blocks, and longer cyl walls on the d9te blocks.

 

Hey Monster the Eliminator guys where there. Did you all check one of there blocks?

 

Yes I did, they had both the premier, and the other one there, those are flat out one very nice block, they also showed how they were cast, and they have done a very good job on it. I already have a start on the engine I am putting together, but the next one I build will be based on one of those blocks, as they had some very nice features plus the capability of a 4.700" bore. They are also going to be coming out with a forged crank soon with strokes availiable upto 4.750.

 

I hate this. Not only have the guys over on the 385 board suggested that maybe I should get a set of hemi heads but I have always loved that block. I just can't get the idea of a 572 with hemi heads for my 56 out of my mind now.

 

why stop at 572 just go for it with one of those blocks, and build a 640+ with hemi heads no that would be one awesome lookin rig just remember there aint no substitute for cubic inches.
Aren't we good at spending YOUR money.

 

LoL, don't tempt me. But Flatlander has its mountian motor kit at 572 for only 4 grand. But i'm trying to figure out how to make a hemi motor streetable. Still have homework to do before I can figure out whether to do it or not.

 

somewhere I read some old ford internal purchase orders for nickle ore to be incorporated into all ford blocks, and the practice was eliminated during the 1973 model year. the 385, 335 and Windsor blocks were all supposed to be high in nickle. the FE blocks were not (?)

ford purchased a lot of nickle-laden ore from a company in Ontario Canada from mid 1965, until late 1972. this was distributed to foundry's for some suspension and bracket parts, and many blocks. foundries have many different "recipes" of alloys for certain purposes.

special duty engines were also extra high content nickle.(boss, police, taxi,heavy truck, military) the weight between a high content block, and a standard block wont be much different, as iron and nickle are similar in weight.

 

The best 460 blocks that will get are pre 73 they have more nickel and the entire block is beefier. it does weigh more but not much also if you find a pre 73 block you will most likely get dove-c heads

 

I am not going to aurgue the high nickel anymore believe what you will on that one.
as far as the pre 73 blocks bieng beefier once again this was what this block summit was all about trying to find out which blocks were actually "beefier" and better, in the hopes that we could find one that was a good ones to buy for the purpose of building stronger engines. the only ones that were beefier where the DOVE-A blocks with a slightly thicker webbing all the others had the same main webbing, and one other thing the lightest block we found was a pre 73 block at 208lbs one other thing you guys keep mentioning is the 73 split well the blocks were revised in 71, and that revision was used until 1978 there is no split in 73 on the blocks ( I challenge you to find a block with a D4## casting number above the starter no such animal exists) the heads were changed in 73, and that casting number head was used until the advent of the FI engines. As far as finding DOVE-C heads on 73, and earlier engines once again this would definatly be wrong it would be 70-71 blocks (DOVE heads werent introduced until 1970 although the 69,a nd 69 castings are pretty much the same thing), and in 72 the went to an open chamber design to reduce compression for emissions purposes, and the D2 heads are about the worst of them in that they are the most prone to detonation with the OC design, and in 73 the changed back to a semi closed chamber to help with the detonation although the are still a very large chamber, these heads can be made to flow as good as the DOVE heads, and would actually be a better choice for a street engine do to not ending up with some crazy compression ratios.
As soon as Dave Mclain gets the info on what was found compilled, and posted I will post a link to it, and you can make your own informed desicions, but as long as people believe thta the early blocks are beefier I can sell mine at double or triple and buy a D9 block, and have several hundered dollars left for other components, although like I stated earlier, my next engine will be based on an eliminator block, little expensive but well worth the money in terms of building a 800+hp engine.

 

I agree with monsterbaby based on personal experience. I have a C8 block and a D1 block. Looking at them you can't see any difference. But the C8 is dead at .030 over and I can take the D1 to .060. If I had to do it all over again I would opt for the D9 or the Eliminator block myself. In fact I just may.

 

Terry with your budget, and plans for that truck I would go with the eliminator block, if for no other reason than since you are building a show truck having a hemi headed eliminator 572 (or more if I can corrupt ya) engine just has a cool factor involved. Also for show purposes the outside casting on that block is cleaner so when painted up woulld look very nice, and is so much stronger. They had a cut apart casting there, and the cyl walls are atleast 3/8" thick.