GVW Increase
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,959
Likes: 9
From: USA
JetJock and Labwillow appear to me to have been talking about GVWR, not GCWR.
When I lived in AZ, whenever I bought another truck and went to the DMV to register it for the first time, they asked me what the GVWR was. I could have told them anything I wanted to and that's what they'd put on the registration, since they never checked the truck physically. My one-ton dually was registered at 8000 lbs GVWR by the previous owner, so I stuck with that. We all know duallies are higher GVWR than that (10,000 and up), but the girl at the DMV apparently didn't know. I got away with paying lower registration fees
. Same thing happened with my old 3/4-ton. Actual truck GVWR was 8200 or 8600, forget which. Truck was registered for 6000.
When I registered an out of state half-ton truck here in California, they asked me what the weight was too, only this time they wanted the scale weight, not the GVWR. They asked if it was over or under 6000 lbs. I said under. They asked me to have it weighed, to be sure it was actually under 6000 lbs. I weighed it, brought them the scale ticket, and I got my plates, which were still commercial plates, but there was no weight fee added on.
When I went to register the F350 for the first time in CA, they asked me the same question. I wasn't so lucky this time though, have to pay a special weight fee on top of the other registration fees
.
As to the possiblity of changing the official weight rating of the truck, the registration weight is a seperate issue from the actual manufacturer weight rating. I imagine the DMV will gladly register your truck for a higher weight if that's what you want, since it means more money for the state, but that has nothing to do with what the manufacturer rated the truck for.
You probably need to take the truck to a truck body upfitter, limozine coach builder, or van conversion or motorhome builder and consult with them on raising the GVWR.
Even then, the chassis-cab trucks that these companies recieve from the manufacturers for modification are already assigned a GVWR by the manufacturer. If the coach builder/upfitter does nothing to upgrade the suspension, axles or frame, I don't see where they would be able to just arbitrarily increase the GVWR. I could see them possibly decreasing it though, if they add a body that isn't able to carry the weight that that truck is rated for.
Unless you're having them add another axle, convert it to dual rear wheels, or do extensive modification to the frame or suspension (like maybe converting to an air-ride suspension), I doubt you will get them to raise the GVWR for you. Seems like you would be asking them to stick their neck out on something that they didn't even do any work to or make any money off of....
When I lived in AZ, whenever I bought another truck and went to the DMV to register it for the first time, they asked me what the GVWR was. I could have told them anything I wanted to and that's what they'd put on the registration, since they never checked the truck physically. My one-ton dually was registered at 8000 lbs GVWR by the previous owner, so I stuck with that. We all know duallies are higher GVWR than that (10,000 and up), but the girl at the DMV apparently didn't know. I got away with paying lower registration fees
. Same thing happened with my old 3/4-ton. Actual truck GVWR was 8200 or 8600, forget which. Truck was registered for 6000. When I registered an out of state half-ton truck here in California, they asked me what the weight was too, only this time they wanted the scale weight, not the GVWR. They asked if it was over or under 6000 lbs. I said under. They asked me to have it weighed, to be sure it was actually under 6000 lbs. I weighed it, brought them the scale ticket, and I got my plates, which were still commercial plates, but there was no weight fee added on.
When I went to register the F350 for the first time in CA, they asked me the same question. I wasn't so lucky this time though, have to pay a special weight fee on top of the other registration fees
. As to the possiblity of changing the official weight rating of the truck, the registration weight is a seperate issue from the actual manufacturer weight rating. I imagine the DMV will gladly register your truck for a higher weight if that's what you want, since it means more money for the state, but that has nothing to do with what the manufacturer rated the truck for.
You probably need to take the truck to a truck body upfitter, limozine coach builder, or van conversion or motorhome builder and consult with them on raising the GVWR.
Even then, the chassis-cab trucks that these companies recieve from the manufacturers for modification are already assigned a GVWR by the manufacturer. If the coach builder/upfitter does nothing to upgrade the suspension, axles or frame, I don't see where they would be able to just arbitrarily increase the GVWR. I could see them possibly decreasing it though, if they add a body that isn't able to carry the weight that that truck is rated for.
Unless you're having them add another axle, convert it to dual rear wheels, or do extensive modification to the frame or suspension (like maybe converting to an air-ride suspension), I doubt you will get them to raise the GVWR for you. Seems like you would be asking them to stick their neck out on something that they didn't even do any work to or make any money off of....
Last edited by SoCalDesertRider; Jan 11, 2005 at 08:18 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
Likes: 16
From: Nutter Fort, WV
When you pull in the scales at 10,000 pounds they want to see the registration to see if you are licensed for more than 10,000 pounds. They do not look at the door sticker to see what it says. The ticket they write you will be for the difference between your gross combined weight minus the registered gross.
10,000 pound total load of truck or truck and trailer.
8,600 pound plates on truck as stated on the registration.
Ticket for 1,400 pounds overweight.
12,000 pounds of trailer and load.
8,000 pounds of truck and load and occupants.
8,600 pound registration on truck
ticket for 11,400 pounds overweight
In WV passenger plates for my F250 truck give me 8,000 pounds gross for 28 dollars a year.
The truck full of fuel and me in the truck weighs 8060 pounds before I put anything else in it.
The same truck with 20,000 pound plates cost me 135 dollars a year.
The weight increase also raised my insurance about 100 dollars a year.
10,000 pound total load of truck or truck and trailer.
8,600 pound plates on truck as stated on the registration.
Ticket for 1,400 pounds overweight.
12,000 pounds of trailer and load.
8,000 pounds of truck and load and occupants.
8,600 pound registration on truck
ticket for 11,400 pounds overweight
In WV passenger plates for my F250 truck give me 8,000 pounds gross for 28 dollars a year.
The truck full of fuel and me in the truck weighs 8060 pounds before I put anything else in it.
The same truck with 20,000 pound plates cost me 135 dollars a year.
The weight increase also raised my insurance about 100 dollars a year.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 475
Likes: 1
From: La Habra, CA
California is similar. I pay 335 in weight fees for my 250. I might be able register it for 10,000 or less and save a good portion of that. Haven't checked on newer vehicles yet.
When I had my 65 F-500, they wanted $1600 to register it, but the previous owner had it registered at 40,000 lbs gross combined. I filled out a form stating I would stay under 10,000 gross and paid $60 or something like that. Best truck I ever had.
One thing I've always wondered about. I know I can register the truck for more weight through the state. That would probably void most of the warranty. I wonder if anyone will insure it that way? AAA wouldn't insure my F-500. I imagine they wouldn't insure my superduty if it was registered for 30,000lbs.
Eric
When I had my 65 F-500, they wanted $1600 to register it, but the previous owner had it registered at 40,000 lbs gross combined. I filled out a form stating I would stay under 10,000 gross and paid $60 or something like that. Best truck I ever had.
One thing I've always wondered about. I know I can register the truck for more weight through the state. That would probably void most of the warranty. I wonder if anyone will insure it that way? AAA wouldn't insure my F-500. I imagine they wouldn't insure my superduty if it was registered for 30,000lbs.
Eric
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,253
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From: Del Rio, Texas USA
Originally Posted by Dave Sponaugle
When you pull in the scales at 10,000 pounds they want to see the registration to see if you are licensed for more than 10,000 pounds. They do not look at the door sticker to see what it says. The ticket they write you will be for the difference between your gross combined weight minus the registered gross.
10,000 pound total load of truck or truck and trailer.
8,600 pound plates on truck as stated on the registration.
Ticket for 1,400 pounds overweight.
12,000 pounds of trailer and load.
8,000 pounds of truck and load and occupants.
8,600 pound registration on truck
ticket for 11,400 pounds overweight
In WV passenger plates for my F250 truck give me 8,000 pounds gross for 28 dollars a year.
The truck full of fuel and me in the truck weighs 8060 pounds before I put anything else in it.
The same truck with 20,000 pound plates cost me 135 dollars a year.
The weight increase also raised my insurance about 100 dollars a year.
10,000 pound total load of truck or truck and trailer.
8,600 pound plates on truck as stated on the registration.
Ticket for 1,400 pounds overweight.
12,000 pounds of trailer and load.
8,000 pounds of truck and load and occupants.
8,600 pound registration on truck
ticket for 11,400 pounds overweight
In WV passenger plates for my F250 truck give me 8,000 pounds gross for 28 dollars a year.
The truck full of fuel and me in the truck weighs 8060 pounds before I put anything else in it.
The same truck with 20,000 pound plates cost me 135 dollars a year.
The weight increase also raised my insurance about 100 dollars a year.
He is correct and this is the bottom line... cops dont know where your door sticker is, they look at the regestration
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
--When you pull in the scales at 10,000 pounds they want to see the registration to see if you are licensed for more than 10,000 pounds. The ticket they write you will be for the difference between your gross combined weight minus the registered gross.
12,000 pounds of trailer and load.
8,000 pounds of truck and load and occupants.
8,600 pound registration on truck
ticket for 11,400 pounds overweight
youve lost me on this one here. we dont have to stop at the scales, so im not worried about the scales part of it. we dont have to register a gcwr where im at. all we have to register is is our gvwr. we can pull what we want to, no matter what it weighs, as long as we dont exceed our gvwr. my truck is registered at 8800lb gvwr and my truck fully loaded weighs about 6000lbs. by your calculations, if i tow anything over 2800lbs then i am going to get a ticket for it.
--If the coach builder/upfitter does nothing to upgrade the suspension, axles or frame, I don't see where they would be able to just arbitrarily increase the GVWR. I could see them possibly decreasing it though, if they add a body that isn't able to carry the weight that that truck is rated for.
we're not talking about trying to make an f250 able to carry what an f550 dually is rated for, or exceeding the trucks capabilities. the only difference between the 250 and 350 is a 35 dollar rubber block. we're trying to see if we can put the rubber block on it and have our gvwr changed from 8800 to 9900.
--Seems like you would be asking them to stick their neck out on something that they didn't even do any work to or make any money off of....
as i mentioned above, we're not asking them to just pull a number out of the air for us without modifying the truck. we are seeing if by making our truck an f350 structurally if we can get it legally changed to an f350s gvwr. if we increase our gvwr to the 350s weight, then it increases how much we can legally tow using a 5er by a couple of thousand pounds.
with an 8800lb gvwr, and a 6000lb truck, using 25% pin weight with a 5er, i can legally tow-8800-6000=2800. 2800/25%=11,200lb trailer. with a 9900lb gvwr i can tow-9900-6000=3900. 3900/25%=15,600lb trailer. it just doesnt make sense to us that a 350 can legally tow 4400lbs more than the 250 just because of a 35 dollar part.
12,000 pounds of trailer and load.
8,000 pounds of truck and load and occupants.
8,600 pound registration on truck
ticket for 11,400 pounds overweight
youve lost me on this one here. we dont have to stop at the scales, so im not worried about the scales part of it. we dont have to register a gcwr where im at. all we have to register is is our gvwr. we can pull what we want to, no matter what it weighs, as long as we dont exceed our gvwr. my truck is registered at 8800lb gvwr and my truck fully loaded weighs about 6000lbs. by your calculations, if i tow anything over 2800lbs then i am going to get a ticket for it.
--If the coach builder/upfitter does nothing to upgrade the suspension, axles or frame, I don't see where they would be able to just arbitrarily increase the GVWR. I could see them possibly decreasing it though, if they add a body that isn't able to carry the weight that that truck is rated for.
we're not talking about trying to make an f250 able to carry what an f550 dually is rated for, or exceeding the trucks capabilities. the only difference between the 250 and 350 is a 35 dollar rubber block. we're trying to see if we can put the rubber block on it and have our gvwr changed from 8800 to 9900.
--Seems like you would be asking them to stick their neck out on something that they didn't even do any work to or make any money off of....
as i mentioned above, we're not asking them to just pull a number out of the air for us without modifying the truck. we are seeing if by making our truck an f350 structurally if we can get it legally changed to an f350s gvwr. if we increase our gvwr to the 350s weight, then it increases how much we can legally tow using a 5er by a couple of thousand pounds.
with an 8800lb gvwr, and a 6000lb truck, using 25% pin weight with a 5er, i can legally tow-8800-6000=2800. 2800/25%=11,200lb trailer. with a 9900lb gvwr i can tow-9900-6000=3900. 3900/25%=15,600lb trailer. it just doesnt make sense to us that a 350 can legally tow 4400lbs more than the 250 just because of a 35 dollar part.
Thread Starter
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Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Utopia
So is Ford's 8800 lbs GVWR just a suggestion like the 20,00lbs GCVW?
And the state will let you register any GVW you want and a GCVW <26,000lbs?
If that's all there is to it, sounds great. I am still going to speak w/ a limo manufacturer, truck upfitter, etc.
And the state will let you register any GVW you want and a GCVW <26,000lbs?
If that's all there is to it, sounds great. I am still going to speak w/ a limo manufacturer, truck upfitter, etc.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
--So is Ford's 8800 lbs GVWR just a suggestion like the 20,00lbs GCVW?
the gvwr of 8800lbs is a nationwide law for the 250. if youre over that, and get caught, then you get ticketed. the gcwr laws are different for each state, but theres no limit to it. you just have to tell them what you want it registered for, and stay under your gvwr.
ford says the gcwr for my 5.4 is 15k, but theres no state law that requires me to be below that. in tennessee we dont have to register a gcwr, and the gvwr is what is on the door sticker unless we want to lower it. which is why im wanting to change my gvwr sticker, because i cant register it at 9900 unless the door says so. im eyeing a nice two car 5er that will be close to putting me over my gvwr, and that extra 1100 lbs will come in handy. and i dont see a point in selling my truck, buying a more expensive f350 if i can just change it by changing a cheap part.
the gvwr of 8800lbs is a nationwide law for the 250. if youre over that, and get caught, then you get ticketed. the gcwr laws are different for each state, but theres no limit to it. you just have to tell them what you want it registered for, and stay under your gvwr.
ford says the gcwr for my 5.4 is 15k, but theres no state law that requires me to be below that. in tennessee we dont have to register a gcwr, and the gvwr is what is on the door sticker unless we want to lower it. which is why im wanting to change my gvwr sticker, because i cant register it at 9900 unless the door says so. im eyeing a nice two car 5er that will be close to putting me over my gvwr, and that extra 1100 lbs will come in handy. and i dont see a point in selling my truck, buying a more expensive f350 if i can just change it by changing a cheap part.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
From: Mackville,VT
[QUOTE=ibf250]--When you pull in the scales at 10,000 pounds they want to see the registration to see if you are licensed for more than 10,000 pounds. The ticket they write you will be for the difference between your gross combined weight minus the registered gross.
12,000 pounds of trailer and load.
8,000 pounds of truck and load and occupants.
8,600 pound registration on truck
ticket for 11,400 pounds overweight
youve lost me on this one here. we dont have to stop at the scales, so im not worried about the scales part of it. we dont have to register a gcwr where im at. all we have to register is is our gvwr. we can pull what we want to, no matter what it weighs, as long as we dont exceed our gvwr. my truck is registered at 8800lb gvwr and my truck fully loaded weighs about 6000lbs. by your calculations, if i tow anything over 2800lbs then i am going to get a ticket for it.
Yes In my state if you registered at 8800lbs you would get a ticket.Insurance cost were also mentioned, and for most people that register there trucks at 25999 they will have commercial insurance which cost is different.
12,000 pounds of trailer and load.
8,000 pounds of truck and load and occupants.
8,600 pound registration on truck
ticket for 11,400 pounds overweight
youve lost me on this one here. we dont have to stop at the scales, so im not worried about the scales part of it. we dont have to register a gcwr where im at. all we have to register is is our gvwr. we can pull what we want to, no matter what it weighs, as long as we dont exceed our gvwr. my truck is registered at 8800lb gvwr and my truck fully loaded weighs about 6000lbs. by your calculations, if i tow anything over 2800lbs then i am going to get a ticket for it.
Yes In my state if you registered at 8800lbs you would get a ticket.Insurance cost were also mentioned, and for most people that register there trucks at 25999 they will have commercial insurance which cost is different.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,285
Likes: 16
From: Nutter Fort, WV
I guess I should have said I use my truck for business. Yes I have commercial insurance.
Here you will be OK if you are pulling your camper or your boat.
If you are pulling a horse or car trailer you better be registered for the GCVW of the entire rig.
Anything that looks like you might be making money because it is on your truck or trailer and you better be registered for the GCVW or you will get a ticket.
Here you will be OK if you are pulling your camper or your boat.
If you are pulling a horse or car trailer you better be registered for the GCVW of the entire rig.
Anything that looks like you might be making money because it is on your truck or trailer and you better be registered for the GCVW or you will get a ticket.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
--Yes In my state if you registered at 8800lbs you would get a ticket.Insurance cost were also mentioned, and for most people that register there trucks at 25999 they will have commercial insurance which cost is different.
i think we have some misunderstandings here. the 8800lbs is the gvwr and 25999 is the gcwr. we do not have to register a gcwr where im at and my insurance just asked me if i tow, said they dont care how much, just need to know if i tow stuff. all we have to register is gvwr. no matter what i register the gvwr at, it doesnt affect how much i can tow, as long as i do not exceed my gvwr. if i register my gvwr at 8800lbs they can not give me a ticket for any weight that i am towing as long as my gvw does not exceed 8800lbs. gcw is of no relevance to me.
for example-
truck weight-6000lbs
trailer weight-10k goosneck
pin weight-2500lbs
gcw-16k
gvwr-8800lbs
gvw-8500lbs
truck is still legal because i didnt exceed the gvwr
im looking to upgrade to trailer that is going to weigh about 12k fully loaded. the pin weight of that load is 3k. add that to my truck weight and im at 9k gvw. which puts me 200lbs overweight. with the 9900lb gvwr i would be 900lbs underweight.
i think we have some misunderstandings here. the 8800lbs is the gvwr and 25999 is the gcwr. we do not have to register a gcwr where im at and my insurance just asked me if i tow, said they dont care how much, just need to know if i tow stuff. all we have to register is gvwr. no matter what i register the gvwr at, it doesnt affect how much i can tow, as long as i do not exceed my gvwr. if i register my gvwr at 8800lbs they can not give me a ticket for any weight that i am towing as long as my gvw does not exceed 8800lbs. gcw is of no relevance to me.
for example-
truck weight-6000lbs
trailer weight-10k goosneck
pin weight-2500lbs
gcw-16k
gvwr-8800lbs
gvw-8500lbs
truck is still legal because i didnt exceed the gvwr
im looking to upgrade to trailer that is going to weigh about 12k fully loaded. the pin weight of that load is 3k. add that to my truck weight and im at 9k gvw. which puts me 200lbs overweight. with the 9900lb gvwr i would be 900lbs underweight.
Thread Starter
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Postmaster
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From: Utopia
There are some serious misunderstandings going on in this thread.
The initial question is "Can an F250 be modified w/ F350 blocks and get the same 9900lb GVW sticker? And where can you get this done?
GCVW is a completely different thing.
Assume my truck weighs 7800 lbs (with driver) and has an 8800 lb GVWR. I have the option of carrying 1000lbs of cargo ON the vehicle itself and anything more I am breaking the law. But, if I use that payload for tongue weight (10%), I can tow 10,000 lbs.
So if I went on a roadtrip w/ the toyhauler I would be legal if all the fuel, water, cargo, quads, and passengers were stored in the trailer and not in the truck w/ me driving by myself to stay under 8800 GVWR.
This is the rediculousness I am trying to figure out. In a legal manner.
The initial question is "Can an F250 be modified w/ F350 blocks and get the same 9900lb GVW sticker? And where can you get this done?
GCVW is a completely different thing.
Assume my truck weighs 7800 lbs (with driver) and has an 8800 lb GVWR. I have the option of carrying 1000lbs of cargo ON the vehicle itself and anything more I am breaking the law. But, if I use that payload for tongue weight (10%), I can tow 10,000 lbs.
So if I went on a roadtrip w/ the toyhauler I would be legal if all the fuel, water, cargo, quads, and passengers were stored in the trailer and not in the truck w/ me driving by myself to stay under 8800 GVWR.
This is the rediculousness I am trying to figure out. In a legal manner.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 285
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From: Mackville,VT
[QUOTE=Customz]There are some serious misunderstandings going on in this thread.
The initial question is "Can an F250 be modified w/ F350 blocks and get the same 9900lb GVW sticker? And where can you get this done?
I guess I missed the inital question.Sorry for the added confusion.As for the upgrade to 9900gvw by adding the 3.75" block, Good luck.I know alot of people that have upgraded ther soft sprung f250's with the taller block just so the truck would sit better when they are using them like they were meant to be.
The initial question is "Can an F250 be modified w/ F350 blocks and get the same 9900lb GVW sticker? And where can you get this done?
I guess I missed the inital question.Sorry for the added confusion.As for the upgrade to 9900gvw by adding the 3.75" block, Good luck.I know alot of people that have upgraded ther soft sprung f250's with the taller block just so the truck would sit better when they are using them like they were meant to be.
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 848
Likes: 3
From: Kokomo
I see guys all the time pulling heavy backhoes (15,000lbs+) and all kinds of other stuff on gooseneck trailers, I am one of the guys that does this, this makes the truck squat a lot, I have a hard time believing that all these guys that work there truck are over weight. From what I am trying to understand all the law cares about is the weight on the truck, so that would be all the weight of the truck and the tongue weight of the trailer that is on the truck, I have 16,000lbs Farm plates, but my truck is not rated for that, so if I get pulled over you mean to tell me that they are going to weight my truck and I am going to get a ticket for how much ever weight I am over on the truck. But I can have as much weight on the trailer as I want???? So if I moved the load back, if I moved it back far enough it would start taking weight off the truck, heck there would be no end to the amount of weight I could pull (I would never do this, the trailer would be all over the place)
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 848
Likes: 3
From: Kokomo
I used to have a old ford with a 300, truck would pull any amount of weight, used to load 4 tractors on our HEAVY gooseneck and go to pulls with a ton of suitcase weights in the bed, that truck was not rated for much weight at all, what would have happened if I got pulled over? I was\am always worried that I will get pulled over by DOT and get in trouble for pulling to much weight, but I see tons of guys doing the same thing I am all the time, these guys have never had a problem, I have been as heavy as 25,000lbs, that is behind me, I guess the total weight would be 31,000lbs or so?! How about the guys with goosenecks loaded with round bales, there over 25,000lbs behind them. Pulling wagons is 28,000lbs off the hitch, but none of that is on the truck, so is that ok?