Uh, one of the moderators must have helped me out, I can't do it on my own. I wasn't aware of this particular discussion until I just got down here, been kinda busy the last few days. I want to clarify my intent: I do not want absolute control, and everyone has a say,and if they feel I'm out of line, I want to hear about it. Yes, I chose some words that come of different than my intent. I am new at being a leader, and will make mistakes. I'll bet that everyone on here has put something in a post that can be taken different than their intent. English is a very difficult language to conveigh in print, and simple mistakes can totally change the meaning. I will say I do take some offense to be called a "king" as that is exactly the kind of thing I try to avoid. PLEASE do some research before you cry foul! It may not be as you think.

 

Fellro,

I took your *I* Comments much like when I'm at at a Canadian Tire or department store looking for something that was one sale & where the clerk would say: "Sorry,I don't have any of those left but, I have one of these "

That's when I ask: "All this stock is Yours?...I thought the store owned it"

Although ,these were valid points that Ice brought up.

One has to be careful how something is worded.

 

I can accept the point, and realize it could have been worded differently, but it was totally different than presented, and none of the chapter have complained at all, and trust me, I doubt monsterbaby would stay quiet if I was out of line. It's almost like living in town, the neighbors across town complain about something I do in my own space, and it doesn't affect them at all. Just rubbed a nerve with me, about the same as he said about my own actions. However, I didn't go accusing him of being on a power trip.

 

One thing that should be pointed out is that some trust is going to have to be given here...all the leaders here were not elected by their good looks rather it was done by their words....and so far not one has broken that, some may be very vocal about trying to get something accomplished.

as to the CL forum, you going to have to have some faith in us and trust.

What is wrong with your leaders being able to talk in private? When the CL forum was online, We started discussing some issue and then the discussion stopped because some people jumped in cut the idea short...even before it had a chance to be expanded on by other CL's..... I feel it caused other Leaders to with-hold there own views and what they wanted to express or comment on.

Being Former military and in charge of personel under me, I perfered to be able
Talk in private with others in similer position. Its not about being secrective, but about being a leader and the burden of responsiblity and trust that has been given to us by you the members, unlike the military or in the real world by being promoted by upper management.

i kinda feel like you really don't want to extend that trust to us CL's. Why you don't i don't know....this is only based upon some of the past comments made recently.....

 

Im not sure "wrong" is the right word, its not that I think its wrong, its that I think its "not right" and glamorizes the chapter leader posiiton, leader in this sense of the word means "take the reins" not "Boss"....but as a direct answer to your question......Theres no reason for it.


This one line is exactly my point AGAIN, and is why I spent 20 minutes typing the post above this morning that Apparently despite my best attempts Felro took the wrong way. This is not the Military, this is FTE, YOU ARE NOT IN CHARGE OF ANYBODY" those are the comments that make me nervous about this whole venture


Trust to do what? the original idea in electing chapter "leaders" was to have people who were willing to take the reins and do all the extra work to make their chapters great, (not people to make sure that everyone stayed in line....)that doesnt require much trust and certainly doesnt require your own private officers club forum, its just not necessary, if you have an idea about chapters that sounds good, bring it up in this forum and tap the creative juices of everyone who has something good to say or interject, or are chapter leaders the only people capable of bright ideas? because in a private forum.....thats all you'd have.


Im sorry I offended you Fellro, but Im disheartened by your first response in this thread, because in it, once again I saw too much ownership being taken, Im not attacking, just pointing out some things that I think can make this venture a better thing, disagreeing with me is okay

 

I'm very glad to to see this statement by you kevin,

{just pointing out some things that I think can make this venture a better thing, disagreeing with me is okay }

and allow others & me the same courtesy.

although i'm not certain of the tone of the reply of your last post, but i will give it the benifit of it being said in a positive manner.

for now Im going to re-read all the posts and think about what has been said.

 

ownership and possession are human traits, no more different than sayin 'In my state," or my town, although you don't own it, it is referred to in that manner. The members of the chapter decided I was the one they wanted to lead and "control" the chapter, and with the leadership comes the responsibility of making decisions and keeping order. If we were to go parliamentary procedure, the president of the club does have control, and can to a point, make certain decisions. I say to you to put yourself in our shoes, actually to the point of having the same powers, decision making and all, and see where it takes you. A leader guides the group, whether it be ideas, or letting someone know when they are out of hand, or making decisions for the betterment of the group. I never ever claim to own the chapter, or absolutely control them. They have their own free minds, and have contacted me if they have any concerns. I am simply a representative, but representatives in our own government make laws over those they represent, in the supposed interest of the masses. Are you trying to say a leader should not be able to make the decisions like that, and take pride in the accomplishments of the group? As a parent, do you not make similar type decisions, and basic control? You as a parent, do not own your children yet you call them yours. I realize posession can be claimed, but the situation is similar. If I were not leader, I still would call them my group, my chapter, my state. My question is this, if it really hasn't been a problem, and the people it affects directly have no complaints, why do you? If I were really on a power trip, or any other leader, for that matter, don't you think that the members would take it to the administration, and have them give that leader a wake up call? It would kind of appear that you are taking on a problem that doesn't exist, for a public that is fine with how it is. Had there been reports of such a problem, then the concern would be warranted. I am unaware of such complaint.

 

These are the duties of a chapter leader when the system was initiated.

Description by the Webmaster.

"The Chapter Leader is responsible for seeking out new Chapter members on the FTE forums (we provide the tools for this), overseeing the organization of events, meetings and gatherings. Additionally, we encourage Chapter members to seek out new members at auto shows, fellow Ford owners in the work place and Ford truck owners you may encounter in your day-to-day life. You may even consider telling local dealerships or auto parts stores about your Chapter."



Now here is some discussion about it (I will not divulge the author at this time) with a few people.


Also, being a moderator is not necessarily any more of a "powerfull" position than being the chapter leader and in that respect, mods were not really intended to be chapter leaders. It just turned out that way in my case. But, I will also not be the moderator of my own chapter, either, so as not to appear too bossy or controlling.

As leaders, we are not to make the rules or ideas of what a chapter does. We can suggest, but a true leader listens to his flock and draws leadership and direction, to a large extent, from them. Getting them to participate...lol.. if I had that figured out, with four states, in theory I should have one of the most active chapters on record. I'm waiting, like you, for winter and more users coming back online and getting in outta the mud and the weather. The chapters have been around for a while, but no one has really ever tried a mega organizing event like we are going for. I, like everyone else, need to sit back somewhat and see what I have already put on my pages attracts.

 

I think that we {being chapter leaders} even though I am giving my on opinion and thoughts on this. Have no clear definition on what FTE thinks a leader is.and what the long term plans are..but that is okay as long as everyone is on the same page..but through experaince and training i've been taught that this is what leadership involves...here is one of many writing's on the subject that is along my own line of thinking.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><><><
leadership
The process of influencing people while operating to meet organizational requirements and improving the organization through change.

<><><><<><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><<><><><><>> <>><>
Harvey Mackay said, "A goal is just a dream with a deadline." And that goal will remain a dream unless you create and execute a plan of action to accomplish it.

Every goal that gets accomplished has a plan behind of it.
Good plans start with a brainstorming session of all the people involved with the project. This allows everyone to be part of the solution and gathers the best ideas.



Next, two key questions (1) must be asked:

What are all the ingredients necessary for its successful execution?
What are all the possible forces or events that could hinder or destroy it?

As much as possible, get all the answers to these questions. Listen carefully to the judgment of your people. Then plan the positive forces and events, and take action to prevent any obstructions that might hinder the project in any way.

A detailed plan must include the who, what, when, where, how, and why. Who will do what? Who does it involve? What are we going to do? When does it start? When does it end? Where will it take place? How will it take place? Why must we do it...what will happen if we do not do it?

Also, it must be organized. Organizing is the process of creating and maintaining the conditions for effectively executing plans. It involves systematically defining and arranging each task with respect to the achievement of the objective. It includes three major steps: Determine all tasks.
Set up a structure to accomplish all task.
Allocate resources.


Determine all tasks
In this phase you and your people brainstorm to determine all the tasks and conditions necessary to carry out the plan. All essential information must be brought out. It is also important to consider timing - when each task must be started and completed. A helpful approach is to use "backward planning." Look at each goal and decide what must be done to reach it. In this way you plan from the moment of the project start point and work your way back to the present in order to determine what must be done. Backward planning simply means looking at the big picture first, and then planning all tasks, conditions, and details in a logical sequence to make the big picture happen. Include all the details of support, time schedule, equipment, coordination, and required checks. You and your people must think of every possible situation that will help or hinder the project. Once the process of mentally building the project has begun, the activities will come easily to mind.
Now, organize all these details into categories, such as needs, supplies, support, equipment, coordination, major tasks, etc. List all the details under the categories. Create a to-do list for each category. This list will become the checklist to ensure everything is progressing as planned.

Set up a structure to accomplish all tasks
You and your people cannot do everything at once, some things are more important than others. Others have to be accomplished before another can start. Set priorities for each checkpoint and assign someone to perform each task on the list. Develop a system for checking each other and ensuring that each task is accomplished on time.
,.,.,.,.<><<><<><><><<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< ><><><><<
Im only quoting this to hope help us all get on the same page...

 

that would be my major focus, and always has been. It is regretful that it has been turned the way it would appear. I only want to further the group, and sometimes that means making decisions when noone else will. I made a simple decision that I felt was in the interest of the group, and now am being called on the carpet as being on a power trip, that is what bothers me. Power trip? I would rather not control anyone, I want them to work with me to better the chapter for everyone. Being the chapter leader isn't all about telling people wht to do, many of them won't help in making the decision, and if I did nothing, nothing would be done. I am blessed with a trouble free group, have had zero issues with anyone in our chapter. I received praise from them for setting up that thread, and it has kept the clutter down. I simply stated it in a way that looked like I was perhaps that way, but upon investigation, it would be found I don't behave that way, so let it go already, I do not control them nor make all the decisions, but it is disheartening in that many do not involve themselves in the decsion making, so I do have to go it alone, as I have no input to go with, and if I do not push ahead and try to keep momentum, we would become stagnant, and eventually interest would be lost. I simply put up a thread that I felt would benefit the group, and when new members come in and don't use it, I just let them know it would be preferred they post it there to keep the clutter down. Is that qualified as a power trip? I don't believe it is. Do I take responsibity for the chapter? You bet I do. I call them my guys and my group all the time, but I do not control any of them. I value their input and ideas, and generally implement it. I confer with many of them to be sure it is the direction that they all would like to go. In regards to the leaders being moderators, the major problem I see with it is the trouble of changing the program in the event a leader steps down, or a new leader is elected, and the moderation powers have to be transferred. I do not want to be leader forever, and do not get off on having the position. Actually, there have been many times I would love to just pass it off to someone else. But it is a responsibility I took, and I stand by it and do the best I can. As has been quoted before, you can't please all the people all of the time.

 

Fellro86,

Icicle did bring up what he felt or percieved to an issue to him....and you have address his concerns as well as others have ,and I think he only intended to use you as an example only....

And your right about not pleasing everyone, but when that happens, you just have to take a deep breath and deal with it the best way
that you can......and by the way, I think your doing a great job, its not easy just shooting from the hip, like we ALL have been doing since the CL's were started.

And since he did get this discussion started....... Bad icicle bad making us address serious issues just before christmas.. .....
.just jokin kevin

its been awhile since these type of concerns were raised..

 

Correct

No, please read this:

Please read that carefully, making sure that chapter leaders stick with the above paragraph is my main concern, you used the word "problem", please understand that this is not a problem, only an issue I wanted to raise, I would much rather discuss this civilly, but I sense your getting a little upset, I dont want that.




yes, leadership in an authority figure, chapter leaders however are not authority figures, but organizers, perhaps the term Chapter "president" is more appropriate for terms of our discussion, we are confusing leadership traits and responsibilities with the same for people in authority positions.

you dont, and in my opinion SHOULD NOT have decision making powers, thats the whole point Ive been trying to make, and for just the reasons were getting into now, Id rather keep this fun for everyone than turn it into a bureaucracy, in the rare event there is a debate that requires an ultimate decision by someone here who truly wears bigger shoes, than something can be taken to them


No no no, see above quotes you dont make decisions or deal with out of hand people, you lead and recruit

your above quote seems to me like you just did claim that, at least the control part


no, Im not trying to say that, Im trying to say thats not the direction we are going, or at least my impression of where Ken wants this to be going "make laws over those they represent" and "in the interest of the masses" are statements that motivated me to start this thread in the first place, those are the kinds of statements that scare me and remind me of absolute power, which corrupts absolutely.

This is nowhere even similiar to parenthood IMO, you are not the parent of your chapter, children need guidance, members of your chapter do not. and in the rare event that someone does, it is in the best interest of FTE in my opinion to use the moderation system already in place to deal with it.

I suggest one or two regular Moderators or Super moderators watch over all chapters, rather than having leaders moderate their own chapters, thats all, Im really not trying to offend anyone, or ruffle feathers, and when I started this thread, I was aware that feathers would probably get ruffled anyway. Please understand my position, I understand yours, and appreciate the witty and responsible replies, I think its time we step back since our positions have all been stated and let the administration here make their decision......or.......

The lawyers have pleaded their cases, go ahead and make a final statement if youd like fellro, And then we'll let the judge interpret our arguments (in a good sense of the word) and decide, hows that sound?

at any rate Im done here. thanks for listening and replying guys, and once again no hard feelings fellro?

 

I said I was done with this thread, but we were typing at the same time I think and yes fellro, your statement was just an example, Im not attacking you, and as far as Im concerned, your all doing a good job....I just want to make sure were all going in the right direction

Merry Xmas guys

 

If I might see if I can make this whole thread a bit shorter and sweeter. SInce I first started reading, there has been something in the back of my mind, but I couldn't put words to it...it seemed lie it might be a long technical answer. I think it has come to me and I'll simplify it as much as I can.

OK ... the chapter leaders we now have are basically the first to go on this, even though there have been chapters around for a while. There were several of us who did a big email drive and went gung ho trying to get some chapters moving. We, as CL's had a bit bigger resposibility in the beginning, to get things off the ground. We had to organize, make suggestions, get people together to help. Some chapters, now, have taken off great guns..they have secretaries, treasurers, state coordinators for multi-state chapters, etc.

I think it's easy for a CL, myself included, to feel a strong sense of pride in what has been accomplished since we did start out as the "I" in a growing "WE". Myself, I would love to have more help in my chapter. Unfortunately it hasn't worked out that way, so I now have a thread going to see WHERE we are going...if we are going anywhere.

I am proud as heck of what I have accomplished in the Drifters, as little as I have, even though I have basically worked very much alone. But ... I would love to use the "WE" words more often.

I think it's easy for a CL to feel a certain sense of "I" because of where we started. I don't think that any of us wish to continue any sense of "I" any longer than necessary. There's a lot of work to running an effective chapter and I believe all of us would love to share the efforts and the kudos.

I apologize if I have ever given anyone the idea that I think I may be above and beyond anyone..egad..come meet me in real life...one look will tell you better.

 

Well, I guess my point is that you yourself could have used some more tact in how you presented, it, because how did you really think I would feel about it when you use me for your only example of how I was trying to be "king", and the way you approached it most certainly set me off, the title alone is quite accusational, and all you had was a small snippet of what all I have done. For the record, I really don't want moderator powers either, but being able to do stickies would be a convenience. Deleting and editing threads is not something I want to do, and has the possibility of abuse, although I'm sure it could be found and dealt with should the problem arise. You also state that you know it won't happen to you because your friends with your leader, so does it not occur to you that perhaps I'm friends with the members in my chapter?(I tried to use a different word, but I belong, so I feel I can call it mine, as they all do as well) Trust me, I have no cape, I can't even run anymore,walking is bad enough, and the members of the Iowa chapter are quite content with how I have handled things, and how I keep things going. Control, no, I haven't tried to control anything, other than the clutter of multiple for sale or wanted posts. Beyond that little point, my control has been nil, and likely will stay that way. To take that and make it into what you have is tough for me to swallow as being not intended to flare, I feel you should know more what you are talking about before you make such accusations.

on edit: I guess I want to clarify those particualr statements just a bit... I have refers to the very thread I started, noone else did, it has my name at the top, so it can be called MINE. Second, I allow refers to the decision even your leader has to make, although it generally doesn't come to mind, but all the same, each thread posted that is either inflamatory or in some chapters, advertising, as to whether to let the post stay, or contact a moderator to have it removed. So, in that sense I allow it, and also the members of the chapter allow it, as they all can contact moderators to have it removed as well. I, being me, allow it without report, and also, We, as a chapter , allow it. I have no moderation powers, and if I was out of hand, I have a moderator handling the moderation, so they would question my intent if they saw nothing wrong with the post. I agree it is possible for someone to get out of hand, but there are ways to take care of it should it be an issue, it's not like we're unable to be put on notice or taken out of position should we not behave accordingly. I have spent much time and effort to get the chapter together, much of it single handedly, and still have to make many of the decisions, as none of the other members do, but they definitiely have input and decision making ability as well. Check me out if it were really a question, and you could see that, it's in all of the threads that deal with basic chapter business.