IFS question
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Northwestern PA
I have to agree with the consensus here. Not try to discourage you just help. (You Asked) The pwr steering box not only has the gears in it, but also a hydraulic motor, which will add drag to the steering.
Pushin 400 HP, I think that I would want to make this machine as safe and easy to handle as possible.
Just my thoughts Good Luck
Mike
Pushin 400 HP, I think that I would want to make this machine as safe and easy to handle as possible.
Just my thoughts Good Luck
Mike
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Senior User
Joined: Nov 2004
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well im starting out with a 52 F2, with a 351... swapping it out for a 400 i have build, stock straight axle front. i read the forum on installing IFS, thats where i got the idea from because there is one over taking a mid 70's front frame and being able to weild if right to the front, i have one laying around (from a 73 lincon mark3) so i wouldnt mind using it. the only thing that i would need paid to have done is the welding, so im not really looking at a large expence of 100's of hours of labor done on it. im just trying to use the parts that i have infront of me. and the cost of getting someone to weld the front isnt a couple of grand, but around $200 because all they're doing is just making sure its straight and welding it, the rest i can do pretty simple myself. and to the others that are commenting that im not going to like a manual steering, im very well aware of what its like to driving with a maual pump, and personaly dont mind. and thank you for all who have helped with my question.
edit: im not even sure if im going to be doing it because no one has answered the question about the frame width... and the tow truck broke down before it could bring my trucks to me yesterday so i cant mesure it myself
edit: im not even sure if im going to be doing it because no one has answered the question about the frame width... and the tow truck broke down before it could bring my trucks to me yesterday so i cant mesure it myself
Last edited by six7seta; Dec 7, 2004 at 02:41 PM.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
Unless you're going to have the welder come to you, it's going to be difficult to move around 2 1/2 vehicles and set them up for welding in someone else's shop. I don't know what welders charge in your neck of the woods, but around here 200.00 would just about pay for one to turn on his machine and strike an arc. Doubler plates need to be made and welded into the end of one of the frames and the other 1/2 frame then needs to be slid over the doublers aligned and plug welded, then check again (and again) before final welding is done. That's if both frames align. if not (seldom do) then some sort of transition needs to be engineered. I'd say it will take > 2 full days of work from the time the first tack is made IF he knows what he's doing and has done it before. Honestly I don't know any good welder that works for the <12.50 an hr. you're figuring, especially tieing up his shop. My welder charged me 125.00 to make two welds on a SS exhaust that took ~ 45 min.
Honestly, the 52 axle is more than capable if you rebuild it and add power steering to it. If the 52 is drivable, try driving it around with the stock "armstrong" steering then multiply the effort x 5 and decide if you really want to use a power steering box without a pump.
Honestly, the 52 axle is more than capable if you rebuild it and add power steering to it. If the 52 is drivable, try driving it around with the stock "armstrong" steering then multiply the effort x 5 and decide if you really want to use a power steering box without a pump.
Last edited by AXracer; Dec 7, 2004 at 03:17 PM.
Posting Guru
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In my younger days, I had occasion to cut and splice the power steering hoses together on a car and drive it for about a week (around town). It was an absolute bear to turn. Much worse than driving a conventional manual steering vehicle. When I say it takes two men and a boy to turn a power steering box without power steering working, it's from experience.
Took so much effort and concentration, I had to be straight to drive it....(that's why I got it fixed)
Took so much effort and concentration, I had to be straight to drive it....(that's why I got it fixed)
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Adams,CO.
AXRacer, good thing you came in on this one, perhaps you will convince him not to do this rattyrod. Sounds like it may be a danger-rod solely based on the budget. ( We get what we pay for). Anyway, P/S boxes need to have hyd pressure on 1 side to work correctly and safely. Yes the P/S fluid does indeed serve as a lube. They also act differently at different speeds ( rpm ) so a manual box would be best. 400 horses and a ratty clip/steering job.........sounds scary to me. Seta, put about 50 horses worth of costs to the suspension and steering and then enjoy without the stress. Just my .02 
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im not worried at all about a crumy welding job, the shop that would do the work has a very good history of the cars they work on, and if i dont feel comfortable with them doing it, i have already done one before and i have an uncle who has about 16 years of welding on Catapiler construction equitment doing pretty much the same thing... so no stress there. and sence ive been hearing that you cant run a power steering box without a pump i will end up putting a pump on or swapping boxes. im more scared of 400hp with stock front end that doesnt brake, corner well, and had bad body roll. im sure i will be adding update of what works and what doesnt.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
Sounds like you've got it covered, so as El C says be sure to post a lot of pics of your progress so we can all learn from you.
Meanwhile I'll be sure to remember to be scared of my panel's beam axle that doesn't steer or stop while I'm towing our 24' enclosed car trailer around the country. After all I wouldn't want anything to happen to our SCCA National Championship winning race car inside until I learn what a good handling car is supposed to feel like.
Good luck!
PS: mind if I call you Bluebear?
Meanwhile I'll be sure to remember to be scared of my panel's beam axle that doesn't steer or stop while I'm towing our 24' enclosed car trailer around the country. After all I wouldn't want anything to happen to our SCCA National Championship winning race car inside until I learn what a good handling car is supposed to feel like.
Good luck!
PS: mind if I call you Bluebear?
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Postmaster
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Riverside, So Cal
So, Six7seta, you don't watch "American Hot Rod"?
"Bluebear" is a kind of jerky guy on there with very strong opinions who sometimes asks questions and then argues with the answers. He thinks he knows everything and so he tells everybody how to do stuff. He ignores advice from experts. He talks off the top of his head and screws up a lot. He is basically the reason I stopped watching the show. Sorta like how folks here stopped answering your thread.
Good luck.
"Bluebear" is a kind of jerky guy on there with very strong opinions who sometimes asks questions and then argues with the answers. He thinks he knows everything and so he tells everybody how to do stuff. He ignores advice from experts. He talks off the top of his head and screws up a lot. He is basically the reason I stopped watching the show. Sorta like how folks here stopped answering your thread.
Good luck.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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From: 45 minutes East of Frisco
I'm thinking the "RAT ROD" term is beginning to mean "Too lazy and poor to do it right"...
That power steering pump isn't going to rob enough power to make it worth getting rid of... If you want to go fast... get a lighter car to put that motor in... If you really want the truck... and the 400hp motor... put a K&N filter on it and that will off set the power loss of the power steering.
Sam.
That power steering pump isn't going to rob enough power to make it worth getting rid of... If you want to go fast... get a lighter car to put that motor in... If you really want the truck... and the 400hp motor... put a K&N filter on it and that will off set the power loss of the power steering.
Sam.
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i have watched it.. guess if you kept on watching you'd get the "blueberry" part of it.. oh yea they fired him from the shop too, so you can now watch it again. and im no where close to ignoring anyones advice, i just didnt get the advice for what i was asking, now i have that and know where to go from there... it never that i was going to do a halfed way job, just trying to find answers. im not a guy that has been doing this for 20+ years, but ive done enough hands on and read as much as i can get my hands on to know whats dangerous. point made i am sorry for offending anyone, my tone was never to blow off anyone's advice. i value everyones input.
Last edited by six7seta; Dec 8, 2004 at 10:39 PM.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: 45 minutes East of Frisco
I guess my point is... why worry about the power it is going to rob? Get the basics down pat... build a nice running/driving truck... and then go back and make it faster.
You'll be on the road sooner, enjoying your truck longer...
Sam.
You'll be on the road sooner, enjoying your truck longer...
Sam.
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