Filtration
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New User
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From: Australia
Filtration
To me filters are filters. I'm sure all the average to high priced filters are the same, they all use synthetic filtration media.
So why do some companies try and scare vehicle owners with horror stories about using genuine filters.
Are all filters the same?
I've been told that the Ford filters are really Purolator filters. And are the best around.
So I always use the genuine Ford item.
Am I doing the correct thing? Or is there a better alternative?
I do not want to go through the hassle of hooking up a bi-pass filter, don't trust all the extra bits, especially since I use my vehicle where there aren't to many repair shops.
I always use synthetic as well.
So why do some companies try and scare vehicle owners with horror stories about using genuine filters.
Are all filters the same?
I've been told that the Ford filters are really Purolator filters. And are the best around.
So I always use the genuine Ford item.
Am I doing the correct thing? Or is there a better alternative?
I do not want to go through the hassle of hooking up a bi-pass filter, don't trust all the extra bits, especially since I use my vehicle where there aren't to many repair shops.
I always use synthetic as well.
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,659
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From: S/C Texas
I use only Napa Gold or WIX.......same filter, made by Dana...same with my oil filters.
Theres a few threads out there about high efficiancy air filters being questionable.
Try a search, might find lots of stuff.
Theres a few threads out there about high efficiancy air filters being questionable.
Try a search, might find lots of stuff.
Last edited by peppy; Oct 30, 2004 at 07:56 AM.
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From: Central Kali
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Filters are VERY different. Unfortunately there is no rating system on automotive filters like there are on industrial filters. Industrial filters for hydraulic and other systems are tested to standard specifications but even then testing is fudged for marketing purposes. Two filters that look the same to the eye can perform quite differently.
The filter study mentioned above just measured square inches of material but it did not test the filters for effectiveness. It is a good start but actual testing needs to be performed.
The filter study mentioned above just measured square inches of material but it did not test the filters for effectiveness. It is a good start but actual testing needs to be performed.
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Thanks for the replies, guys.
It is amazing, filters are one of the most important parts of an engine, yet we have no real way of knowing how good or bad the filter we purchase is.
With oils, we can look up the manufacturers’ specs & find out if it is mineral or synthetic based, group 1, 2, 3 or 4, API rating, vehicle manufacturers rating, and flash point & on it goes. However, with filters, we have to take the promise of an advertising slogan that it is the best around or passes such & such test.
I read the site sponsor http://www.oilguard.com/Other/BypassFilters.php article & love the idea of filtering out particle as low as 1 - 5 microns, but why is it that standard oil filters do not do the same thing?
Why is it that the manufacturers of standard oil filters do not publish what size particles their filters remove?
Air & fuel filters are the same, how many manufacturers publish filter specifications?
I think I read somewhere that Purolator can remove particle from 10 - 40 microns. If that is correct, that is a huge inconsistency.
It is amazing, filters are one of the most important parts of an engine, yet we have no real way of knowing how good or bad the filter we purchase is.
With oils, we can look up the manufacturers’ specs & find out if it is mineral or synthetic based, group 1, 2, 3 or 4, API rating, vehicle manufacturers rating, and flash point & on it goes. However, with filters, we have to take the promise of an advertising slogan that it is the best around or passes such & such test.
I read the site sponsor http://www.oilguard.com/Other/BypassFilters.php article & love the idea of filtering out particle as low as 1 - 5 microns, but why is it that standard oil filters do not do the same thing?
Why is it that the manufacturers of standard oil filters do not publish what size particles their filters remove?
Air & fuel filters are the same, how many manufacturers publish filter specifications?
I think I read somewhere that Purolator can remove particle from 10 - 40 microns. If that is correct, that is a huge inconsistency.
Junior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 85
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Just as info factory original Ford filters are priduced by Champion and the aftermarket filters are Purolator. For the $2.97 to $3.99 price they are very good filters. Wix/Napa Gold, Purolator Pure One and Mobil 1 filters may offer some amount of finer filtration but how much I could not say. Myself I use the Motorcraft.
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Just found some usefull info from the filter guy ,Oil Filters , at; http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...=001916#000000
This has some interesting info as well; http://www.practicingoilanalysis.com...up=OilAnalysis
Well I wanted to start a thread on some basics of filtration. As i've read a few threads and seen some interesting questions and replies by some.
For my background go to the thread on the new design of the Super Tech filter.
Automotive car manufacuters do have specifications for the design of the filter. I think it would be stupid to think that they want any old piece of toilet roll put on their engines.
The primary specifications for spin on filter construction are for burst and collapse pressure minimums. The element needs to be of a minimum "weighted average" efficiency and a minimum dirt holding capacity which equates to filter life. The more dirt holding capacity, the longer the life.
The engine manufacturer also determines the oil filter relief valve or by-pass valve settings. NOT the filter manufacturer. So it is critical when some of you motor heads go trying to find larger or other filters to fit your particular vehicle, you stay with the same valve settings.
One of the fun bits of information that consumers try to latch onto and compare filters with is "micron" ratings.
For those who are not familiar with what a micron is....one micron is 39 millionths of an inch. .000039. Or one millionth of a meter.
The lower limit of visibility of the human eye at 20/20 vision is 40 microns. So if you have some powder somewhere and look for one granual, the smallest piece you can see is 40 microns.
Keeping that in mind, All filters remove 1-100 micron pieces of contaminant in the oil. Any filter company who tells you their filter is a certain micron size needs to also tell you how effective they are at removing that size partical. So when someone says their filter is a 5 micron or 8 micron or 15 or 20 or 25 or whatever..unless you know how good a filter is..go back to my original statement..ALL filters remove any size particle.
So how do you know how a good a filter is at removing a certain size particle? Ask the manufacturer on their toll free telephone number. They "should" give you the nominal micron rating.
The nominal rating is equal to 50% efficiency of that particle size and larger that the filter element will remove.
I'll give you an example of what a nominal rating is...
The filter companies use an SAE test whereby they flow fluid through the element and count the particle sizes of contaminant going into the filter via electron microscope from an industry standard test dust ( AC fine test dust). They then count the same size particles downstream after the fluid had gone through the filter media.
So if there are 1000 particles of 20 micron and larger going into the element and 500 come out down stream...you get 50% efficiency. 500 pieces got caught by the element, 500 got through.
Or if you ever see it expressed in written form it will look like this: B20=2.
The test is a Beta test..hence the "B".
20 and larger being the micron size tested.
2 being the answer when you divide 500 into 1000.
Engine manufacturers, as has been stated in some of these threads, worry about certain size particles. Generally those 5 micron to 25. The better a filter is at removing these size particles, the longer the engine life. The sizes 5-25 are chosen because of where the oil flows and the tolerances of the metal parts. For instance the piston versus the cylinder sleeve, around the bearings, etc.
If the tolerance is , as an example 10 microns, then any 5 micron particle will not create wear. It flows through like a BB between the gutters on a bowling alley lane. Neither will a 20 micron particle be able to cause damage. But a 10 micron sized one will.
For those who are into the smaller micron ranges and get hung up on micron sizes under 5 for a motor, your basically wasting your time. And those filter companies who claim a sub-micron element..just laugh at them. Then your getting into the molecular level of the oil additive package ( or so i've been told).
Now that you know how the filter company tests the filter, what does it all mean? As I mentioned earlier typically what you will get is a "Weighted" average efficiency. This is because the filter company tests all particle sizes and expresses how good their element is for all size particles. The higher the weighted average efficiency, the better the media is at removing all particle sizes out of the oil.
btw..you'll never get 100% efficiency. The only way to achieve that is no flow. If oil goes through the element and 1 particle gets through the element,.....it can't be 100% efficient then can it?
For those who want to run with no filter and think there's no harm. Please do oil analysis. I think you'll surprise yourself as to the level of particles floating around in your used oil. So if you'll admit to yourself that there are contaminant particles in your oil, won't you also admit that they must be creating wear in the engine?
You don't have to run a filter on your motor unless you want to void engine warranty if the vehicle is new or you like rebuilding motors..
Not running a filter also shortens oil life because the oil can only hold so many pieces of contaminant in suspension. It also effects the ability of the oil to help disappate heat from the engine. So have at it..don't run a filter..
Now when I said you are basically wasting your time with looking at filter with respect to a certain size particle, i'll explain.
Suppose one filter company says their filter is nominally rated at 20 microns. And another says theirs is nominally rated at 5 microns. Obviously the 5 micron filter is better than the 20. But...when you look at the entire filter construction between the two filters...the can size is the same, so if you have a 5 micron nominal element you would also have shorter filter life versus the 20 micron one. There's only so much filter paper they can pack in the filter canister. So there is a trade off.
The trade off is better filter efficiency versus shorter life. The question you would have is, as the better filter plugs up with contaminant the life shortens quicker. Because as the paper media loads with contaminant, it becomes even more efficient and at the same time more restrictive. This can lead to the restriction opening the relief or by-pass valve and then you are allowing more unfiltered oil downstream of the element. So you have effectively negated what you were trying to achieve.
For my background go to the thread on the new design of the Super Tech filter.
Automotive car manufacuters do have specifications for the design of the filter. I think it would be stupid to think that they want any old piece of toilet roll put on their engines.
The primary specifications for spin on filter construction are for burst and collapse pressure minimums. The element needs to be of a minimum "weighted average" efficiency and a minimum dirt holding capacity which equates to filter life. The more dirt holding capacity, the longer the life.
The engine manufacturer also determines the oil filter relief valve or by-pass valve settings. NOT the filter manufacturer. So it is critical when some of you motor heads go trying to find larger or other filters to fit your particular vehicle, you stay with the same valve settings.
One of the fun bits of information that consumers try to latch onto and compare filters with is "micron" ratings.
For those who are not familiar with what a micron is....one micron is 39 millionths of an inch. .000039. Or one millionth of a meter.
The lower limit of visibility of the human eye at 20/20 vision is 40 microns. So if you have some powder somewhere and look for one granual, the smallest piece you can see is 40 microns.
Keeping that in mind, All filters remove 1-100 micron pieces of contaminant in the oil. Any filter company who tells you their filter is a certain micron size needs to also tell you how effective they are at removing that size partical. So when someone says their filter is a 5 micron or 8 micron or 15 or 20 or 25 or whatever..unless you know how good a filter is..go back to my original statement..ALL filters remove any size particle.
So how do you know how a good a filter is at removing a certain size particle? Ask the manufacturer on their toll free telephone number. They "should" give you the nominal micron rating.
The nominal rating is equal to 50% efficiency of that particle size and larger that the filter element will remove.
I'll give you an example of what a nominal rating is...
The filter companies use an SAE test whereby they flow fluid through the element and count the particle sizes of contaminant going into the filter via electron microscope from an industry standard test dust ( AC fine test dust). They then count the same size particles downstream after the fluid had gone through the filter media.
So if there are 1000 particles of 20 micron and larger going into the element and 500 come out down stream...you get 50% efficiency. 500 pieces got caught by the element, 500 got through.
Or if you ever see it expressed in written form it will look like this: B20=2.
The test is a Beta test..hence the "B".
20 and larger being the micron size tested.
2 being the answer when you divide 500 into 1000.
Engine manufacturers, as has been stated in some of these threads, worry about certain size particles. Generally those 5 micron to 25. The better a filter is at removing these size particles, the longer the engine life. The sizes 5-25 are chosen because of where the oil flows and the tolerances of the metal parts. For instance the piston versus the cylinder sleeve, around the bearings, etc.
If the tolerance is , as an example 10 microns, then any 5 micron particle will not create wear. It flows through like a BB between the gutters on a bowling alley lane. Neither will a 20 micron particle be able to cause damage. But a 10 micron sized one will.
For those who are into the smaller micron ranges and get hung up on micron sizes under 5 for a motor, your basically wasting your time. And those filter companies who claim a sub-micron element..just laugh at them. Then your getting into the molecular level of the oil additive package ( or so i've been told).
Now that you know how the filter company tests the filter, what does it all mean? As I mentioned earlier typically what you will get is a "Weighted" average efficiency. This is because the filter company tests all particle sizes and expresses how good their element is for all size particles. The higher the weighted average efficiency, the better the media is at removing all particle sizes out of the oil.
btw..you'll never get 100% efficiency. The only way to achieve that is no flow. If oil goes through the element and 1 particle gets through the element,.....it can't be 100% efficient then can it?
For those who want to run with no filter and think there's no harm. Please do oil analysis. I think you'll surprise yourself as to the level of particles floating around in your used oil. So if you'll admit to yourself that there are contaminant particles in your oil, won't you also admit that they must be creating wear in the engine?
You don't have to run a filter on your motor unless you want to void engine warranty if the vehicle is new or you like rebuilding motors..
Not running a filter also shortens oil life because the oil can only hold so many pieces of contaminant in suspension. It also effects the ability of the oil to help disappate heat from the engine. So have at it..don't run a filter..
Now when I said you are basically wasting your time with looking at filter with respect to a certain size particle, i'll explain.
Suppose one filter company says their filter is nominally rated at 20 microns. And another says theirs is nominally rated at 5 microns. Obviously the 5 micron filter is better than the 20. But...when you look at the entire filter construction between the two filters...the can size is the same, so if you have a 5 micron nominal element you would also have shorter filter life versus the 20 micron one. There's only so much filter paper they can pack in the filter canister. So there is a trade off.
The trade off is better filter efficiency versus shorter life. The question you would have is, as the better filter plugs up with contaminant the life shortens quicker. Because as the paper media loads with contaminant, it becomes even more efficient and at the same time more restrictive. This can lead to the restriction opening the relief or by-pass valve and then you are allowing more unfiltered oil downstream of the element. So you have effectively negated what you were trying to achieve.
