Hybrids
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Elder User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 631
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From: P-Town, CA
Hybrids
I have heard from a few sources that the hybrid cars dont get the advertised 70 MPG, and get more like 50. I have also heard that some people are getting 40+ MPG in VW TDi jetta's, so my question is, why doesnt a manufacter make a diesel electric hybrid vehicle? Just something to ponder......
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,448
Likes: 2
From: CA Central Coast
Re the diesel electric...probly because the newer diesels are too new to this market...there's still a chance they won't catch on given the US public at large still thinks diesels are sooty smelly and loud. If they catch on you might see them in the hybrids.(?)
Re the mileage...I've heard that too, and partof the problem may be that as usual the mpg figures are on a dyno/treadmill, and people don't drive the same way as in the tests. Second, the hybrids are best for heavy stop and go or town traffic, but on the open highway the gas engine is used. I'll bet most folks using them are driving long commutes thinking ofthe gas savings, when they'd be better off with one of the really high mpg gas burners...no batteries etc to mess with. And no extra environmental hazard from recycling/disposal of worn out batteries either.
The hybrids'll help if enough folks who drive SUV's as grocery getters and kid haulers buy hybrid SUV's. Otherwise, I'm betting on the new diesels.
Re the mileage...I've heard that too, and partof the problem may be that as usual the mpg figures are on a dyno/treadmill, and people don't drive the same way as in the tests. Second, the hybrids are best for heavy stop and go or town traffic, but on the open highway the gas engine is used. I'll bet most folks using them are driving long commutes thinking ofthe gas savings, when they'd be better off with one of the really high mpg gas burners...no batteries etc to mess with. And no extra environmental hazard from recycling/disposal of worn out batteries either.
The hybrids'll help if enough folks who drive SUV's as grocery getters and kid haulers buy hybrid SUV's. Otherwise, I'm betting on the new diesels.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2002
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I've heard some first responders worry about what happens with the 330 volts in those batteries.... do they have to check for voltage before they touch the car ????
Not sure of the AMPS... but it may be high enough to kill with 330 volts....
Not sure of the AMPS... but it may be high enough to kill with 330 volts....
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 18,787
Likes: 30
From: Melbourne, Aus
Honestly don't know why they don't do it...
I imagine they will, in time.
In Europe, they have the VW 3L lupo, so named cos it gets 3L/100km (78mpg)
Who needs a hybrid???
Would mostly only add weight, and make it more inefficient...
I imagine they will, in time.
In Europe, they have the VW 3L lupo, so named cos it gets 3L/100km (78mpg)
Who needs a hybrid???
Would mostly only add weight, and make it more inefficient...
Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,746
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From: Tampa Bay, FL USA
Originally Posted by mantta
Something that is not mentioned is the cost of replacing the batteries in these hybrids. I bet it is more than you would save in gasoline.
New User
Joined: Jan 2008
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The last 3 years on our visits to Ontairo I have rented VW TDI 5 speeds.
I got 58 in the beetle & 56 in the Jetta's.
I am presently looking for a newer Jetta for a daily driver.
I got 58 in the beetle & 56 in the Jetta's.
I am presently looking for a newer Jetta for a daily driver.
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Posting Legend
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,255
Likes: 37
Originally Posted by jdadamsjr
I've heard some first responders worry about what happens with the 330 volts in those batteries.... do they have to check for voltage before they touch the car ????
Not sure of the AMPS... but it may be high enough to kill with 330 volts....
Not sure of the AMPS... but it may be high enough to kill with 330 volts....
I considered converting my wife's old Isuzu Trooper to a hybrid a few years ago. I would have been using 14 batteries for a 168V battery bank and a 180VDC motor.
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Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,659
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From: S/C Texas
I saw the other day on MotorWeek, I think, a hybrid Explorer. Said Ford was producing 700 of them. Appears they made a few, and many more demands came for the hybrid version.
I did find a story on USA Today.
Beats me, looks like old news on USA Today. MotorWeek acted as if it was something new.
I did find a story on USA Today.
Beats me, looks like old news on USA Today. MotorWeek acted as if it was something new.
Last edited by peppy; Oct 12, 2004 at 05:27 AM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
Dodge had a diesel-electric hybrid Intrepid under development until the DaimlerChrysler merger. The Mercedes folks stopped the project, probably because the German side of the company consider themselves the "experts" on diesels and the company was going full-bore on fuel cell development at the time.
We will not see more diesels in passenger cars until the low sulfur fuel comes along in a couple of years. Since California is the biggest market for hybrids and new diesel cars are outlawed here, there are no diesel-electric hybrids on the market.
Jim
We will not see more diesels in passenger cars until the low sulfur fuel comes along in a couple of years. Since California is the biggest market for hybrids and new diesel cars are outlawed here, there are no diesel-electric hybrids on the market.
Jim
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by Fordfanz
hasnt the Diesel been in the VW s for years
My current daily driver is a 2003 Jetta TDI 5spd Wagon. MPG averages in the high-40's and occasionally gets to 50 mpg. Occasionally, I want for more power, but that's not what I bought the car for.
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,921
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From: central TX
Diesels aren't as easy to quick-start as gas engines (such as the current hybrid systems use) so the starts probably wouldn't be very seamless. Another thing to consider is how long it takes for diesels to warm up in the first place. I could see problems w/ even getting the cats up to temp, possibly inreasing overall emmissions. Even if it doesn't do shutdown until at full engine/cat operating temp., it seems like that would negate the shutdown feature for most people driving in the city, which is where the hybrid system really shines in the first place. Make it a hydraulic hybrid system(as posted in another thread) and I could see it working a little better though. Still wouldn't buy one though, I like to tinker w/ my cars-something not yet available to hybrid owners.
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 65
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the problem with Hybrid's right now is the extra cost will not cover the gas you will save.
For example the Honda Hybrid car looks and peforms like a normal Honda Civic,but the Honda Hybrid cost much more than a Honda Cvic. So if the Hybid is say, $10,000 more than it's non Hybrid brother to buy, you would never come close to saving that 10 grand in gas over the ownership of the car.
Right now only "save the planet" type of people would buy a exspensive Hybrid.
For example the Honda Hybrid car looks and peforms like a normal Honda Civic,but the Honda Hybrid cost much more than a Honda Cvic. So if the Hybid is say, $10,000 more than it's non Hybrid brother to buy, you would never come close to saving that 10 grand in gas over the ownership of the car.
Right now only "save the planet" type of people would buy a exspensive Hybrid.
Posting Legend
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,255
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I figure in a few years the hybrids will be very competitive with reg gas models and maybe even diesels. I also expect that we will eventually get diesel hybrids rather than gas. In another 20 years you may not have a choice unless you pay big $$$.