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straight axle vs ifs

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Old Sep 28, 2004 | 01:06 PM
  #1  
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wizzard351
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straight axle vs ifs

ok over the years ive seen afew changes in off roadin. i ran my tucks over the years on trails drags and tuff truck challenges and what ive noticed it that ive spent alot of cash beefin up frontends,always strait axles but then i see these guys comin out with early 80's broncos and 150's and beatin the heck out of them and all the do is cut the fenders put on swampers ive seen these ifs land from 20 foot in the air and never skip a beat is ifs realy the way to go or what,not considerin street drivablity cuzz anything i build for the trail dont get run on the street anyway
 
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Old Sep 28, 2004 | 01:33 PM
  #2  
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fishmanndotcom
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this is a very debateble subject and I imagine that this will become a pretty long thread with everyones opinioons involved!

i believe, and it has been proven, that the ttb can be beefed up to some extent and be quite reliable but when you compare how much it is gonna cost to beef up a ttb or swap in a straight axle (and have so many more options with a striahgt axle) ppl tend to sway towards the bandwagon and get a solid D60.

that's not to say that ttb can't take a beating...i'd say 70% of the folks in my bronco club are running a ttb setup, beefed up or not and the front axles usually hold up. BUT not many of us are running anything above 37" tall tires.

i am a strong believer that a stock ttb setup with 35's will last a long time given you maintain everything well and that you finesse it off road....also anything bigger than 35's and the ttb is gonna be pushed to it's limit's

that's my humble opinion *flame suit on and zipped* flame on suckas'

-cutts-
 
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Old Sep 28, 2004 | 01:33 PM
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If you're jumping it or doing alot of highspeed stuff, IFS is the way to go since it soaks up blows better. In the rocks you get better articulation from a solid axle. Another advantage to solid axles are that there are fewer parts to break (and are cheaper to fix if tehy do) and the parts that are there are usually stronger than an IFS counterpart. In the mud it's a toss up, you get better ground clearance from an IFS setup, but you get more strength out of a solid axle. Most run a solid for strength.

Now, I'd really like to know where you're seeing IFS trucks that just slap on swampers and trim the fenders without doing any beefing of teh front end and see them live any sort of life under hard use. The TTB D44 ford will snap the stub shaft before a solid D44 will lose an axle and TTB is a PITA to align once you get big rubber on it and start playing hard (the frame twists). Not so much of a concern for a trail rig, but definitely one for a daily driver.


Justin
 
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Old Sep 28, 2004 | 05:41 PM
  #4  
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To boil it down, a solid axle is still the way to go unless you are doing baja stuff. I remain incredibly unimpressed by ttb.
 
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Old Sep 29, 2004 | 12:59 AM
  #5  
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Hoxiii, I think he means a truck like this:



That's my mudder. Anyway the TTB is a great daily driver when taken care of, but when you start puttin power, tires and trail abuse to it, it becomes very easy to break things and thus spend big money on parts that WILL break again. Overall a solid front axle is the way to go for the money if you are serious about 4x4ing. I will be swapping out the TTB out of that truck (although i haven't broke anything yet, but both front axle seals are leaking) for a dana 60 SAS out of a newer truck.

But to each his own, and money determines a lot of what a stock 4x4 will turn in to.

BTW those are 35x16x16.5 boggers and the body line were cut out with a plasma cutter.
 
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Old Sep 29, 2004 | 05:04 AM
  #6  
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The TTB setup in fullsize fords is every bit as strong as the solid axle dana 44- they use the same ring and pinion, same u-joints, and actually have a strength advantage in the ball joints. Because the ball joints are spaced further apart from each other than they are in a solid axle, they are able to put up more resistance to leverage exerted by the tires. As already stated, they have alignment issues if wheeled very much.
 
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Old Sep 29, 2004 | 11:35 PM
  #7  
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the one truck ive seen do some realy impresive stuf was an 83 bronco/w 300 standerd this guy didnt know the meanin of let off the gas he hit the log pile and the rock pile wfo i havent seen any thing like this and it did not break oh yeah he hit the hill and cleared the mud pit he was runin 34x9.50 swampers.ive jumped my 74 bronco/84 escort but would never think of putin it threw that much abuse. if i could figure how to post a pic i will
 
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Old Sep 30, 2004 | 12:05 AM
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To post a pic use the image tag button on in the go advanced reply, hit the button on the toolbar and to get the image location right click then click properties and copy the image location, then paste it image tag dialog box when it comes up
 
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Old Sep 30, 2004 | 12:38 AM
  #9  
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I can run ***** to the walls in my truck with a 300 and TTB and not break a thing, the 300 just doesn't have the power to spin stuff to let it snap, all it does is torque it out of the muck. Once you start playing in the rocks is when you see the liability of TTB. I had to put paint marks on ALL of my suspension and steering parts. They were moving around so much that i needed a reference from trip to trip.

Justin
 
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Old Sep 30, 2004 | 11:00 AM
  #10  
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cant make it work
 

Last edited by wizzard351; Sep 30, 2004 at 11:07 AM.
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Old Sep 30, 2004 | 07:48 PM
  #11  
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I don't think that the ttb is bad or anything but I prefer the solid axle as they are so much simpler to work with and modify stuff. I hav't noticed much difference in ride quality and strength(unless your talking about a 60).
 
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Old Sep 30, 2004 | 10:52 PM
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Where's the image located cause i can post it if you want.

One thing though is that there are a few guys out herre where i am that have taken jeep CJ's and then choped the frame and morphed the front frame off a ttb truck (engine crossmember forward) and he used a 6" lift and did some mods and is getting 15" of travel. Anyway i've seen these jeeps in the tough trucks competition and these jeeps have been cleaning up (they put in something like 4.50 gears and CTM u joints). but anyway i think the TTB is better built for light vehicles (nothin heavier than a 1/2 ton) and that way you can get away with running some power and some decent sized tires.
 
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Old Oct 1, 2004 | 05:24 AM
  #13  
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Even though the mags dont really cover much desert racing anymore, you used to see a lot of trucksrunning the TTB setup, even non Fords, so that should tell a person that they have someting going for them!
 
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Old Oct 3, 2004 | 12:39 AM
  #14  
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It would cost 1600 to 5000 to do the ttb setup correctly in a big Bronco to consistently fly through the air. Thats just for the front suspension. its about the same for the rear. They can do 80 through the desert with some tough mountainy terrain. The still suck and rock crawling and mud.

The AutoFab stuff is as good as it gets.


The following info is straigt from John Emkhe, owner of Autofab.

Originally Posted by John Emkhe
For the Bronco and F150 4wd twin traction beam front ends we have developed 3 different suspension kits. These designs have been used successfully for over 12 years now with excellant results. Our basic lift consisting of modified traction beams exchange, custom race quality tubular radius arms, custom designed radius arm pivot brackets , concentrating on good tire turning clearance. We have found that the stock radius arm pivot bracket moved back is undesirable ( tires hit hard! ). A new set of radius arm pivot bushings and thrust washers with grade 8 bolts and nuts to properly mount the brackets are also included. All kits use modified beams instead of drop down brackets for proper steering geometry. The stock pitman arm is maintained as well ! Also a new set of coil springs are included. price without shocks is $1600. When it comes to shocks we are currently selling Doestch Tech shocks priced around 50 ea or the Bilstein shock for $85 ea. The front shock on the double shock option in Bilstein is 95 ea.
To make the transition from a lift to wheel travel kits involves changing the existing coil mount bucket to our custom made coil buckets combination shock mounts. Here is where we offer 2 choices, both kits offer 16" front wheel travel, the big kit is enough tubular hoop and shock mounts for up to 4 shocks per wheel. Or an option that works awesome is a package with 2 large 2.5"Racerunner shocks per wheel? (as a suggestion) 2.5" shocks are $400 each. All suspension is fully cycled with the beams to assure the best fit and most wheel travel. Our quality mig welding complete this kit and it is ready to bolt on. these kits come with all components to construct a bolt in tubular crossmember over the motor to the top of each hoop. some fitting and welding is required here. All critical mounting hardware is supplied in grade 8 , All bushing and bracket mounts to the frame and crossbar are included. the bump stops are setup for you and high strength limit straps are included with mounting to the radius arm . You drill a hole in the frame to mount the other end. The steering geometry is excellant and the on road driving is superb! Price on this package is 2750 includes coils but not shocks. Options include 1)$200, Reinforced Traction beams! We weld 1/4" plate gussets into the weak areas of the housing to the pivot bushing ends. You can bend stock housings when jumping! 2)$70, Skid plate for the low area of the front housing. 3) $130, Compression inserts for the coils to beef up the front spring rate 4)$200 Coil adjuster kits! This will allow you to fine tune the ride height and make accurate adjustments.
The second kit is designed with a single sway away 2.5" racing shock per wheel , custom coil bucket and shock mount structure for the full 16" travel. Much easier to install , a nice compromise between the basic lift and the big travel kit , perfect for the rock climber guy . No engine crossbar with this design as it is lower and closer to the coil bucket itself. Resevoir mounts are provided on the front side of the bucket. It does include bump stops and limit straps. price 2500. Same options above apply as well. Each 2.5 racing shock is $400.
For the rear we offer a custom set of progressive leaf springs. Our unique anti wrap up 2 link traction bar kit that will cycle for the full 16" travel on broncos and 18" travel on trucks. A properly designed 2 link is important to long life of leaf springs. I will explain: What flattens, fatigues, or breaks leaf springs is hitting bumps and the power at once. If a spring just goes up and down they last a long time. It is the twisting that getting on and off the gas causes, commonly called spring wrap up that puts the kabash on your spring investment. The 2 link keeps the twisting from happening and allows the spring to deflect for full travel and no wind up. The pivot points of the 2 link are extremely critical for proper function. You can't just throw a bar in anywhere if you want proper wheel travel as well. If the link bars are not designed right you can actually make your truck handle worse because the spring is binding. You may at this point choose to put some longer shocks in the stock mounts and be done with it or go for the wheel travel kits. On the bronco we have a complete upper bolt in crossmembers (2) for the upper shock mounts that fits under the floor pan of your bronco. Lower mounts are included and do require some welding after locating with the existing shock mount. All fabrication is high quality designed for good looks and durability. price on the rear bronco kits is $2000 for springs, 2 Link anti wrap up kit, Bolt in upper shock mount structures. Weld on lower shock structures, Necessary grade 8 bolts and nuts, and Limit straps.
For the rear of trucks we offer 18" rear wheel travel using the stock leaf spring frame mounts and shackles! It consists of a through the bed tubing structure that mounts the long travel shocks necessary for that much wheel travel. The lower shock mount is the spring plate that the rear end U bolts to. This way the shocks are up high for ground clearance and will not interfer with stock fuel tank or exhaust system, typical problems when trying to mount long travel shocks under the bed! The cage shock mount structure is bolted to the frame using Autofab bushing assemblies and special mounting brackets. Some holes will need to be drilled when installing our kit. We provide frame reinforcement for the bump stop and it ties through to the middle cage mount of the rear kit. The bed cage is mounted with six bushing assemblies total. The rear bed cage structure is designed to adapt easily to your in cab roll cage if that is in the planning. Custom progressive leaf springs are included in rear kits. These are absolutely necessary for proper spring rate and full travel! All rear truck suspensions also come with our unique 2 link traction bar kit that properly cycles for 18" wheel travel! Heavy duty limit straps are included in basic kit price of $2750. Spare tire mounts can be added if you wish for additional $.
Shock prices vary based on quality from 50 to 210 each, large 2 1/2 swayaway 330ea. Doetsch Tech , Rancho etc. around the 50 mark and resevoired bilstein or fox racing 2" shocks 210 ea. Rock climbing does not require expensive shocks , serious prerunning and high speed offroading require resevoired racing shocks. Cheaper shocks will heat up and fade away under hard offroad use. We offer tech advise if you need it.
To properly install our kits you have to be able to completely dismantle your front end , the same as to change gears, only a step further because you have to break the knuckle ball joint area apart to change over to our beams , and of course send your good parts back to us for core charge refund. You will also have to be qualified with a tape measure , I certainly dont mean this as an insult but i have met numerous people that did not know how to read a simple ruler. You will have to locate brackets and drill mounting holes in the frame , 1/2" holes. You will be removing the entire rear suspension as well and that can be a real chore sometimes when the bolts get frozen in! You will also have to be able to get rivets out of a frame. A simple technique here is to drill the rivet first with about a 1/4" drill about halfway through, then cut the head off with a cold chisel or pnumatic hammer chisel, then using a large punch , drive the rest of the way out.
We know it is a lot of work to do your suspension this way But, It truely is the only way to do it right ! I encourage anyone to tackle it themself as when you complete it you will have gained tremendous knowledge and confidence !
For that price, you could have a Dana 60 front and rear in the Bronco for less from Dynatrac or Currie or DTS. But if you want a prerunner, the Autofab or Camburg system is the optimun way to go because the eliminate the axle pivot drop brackets completely. The Bronco in the Pic has about 12 bilstein shocks under it.
 

Last edited by rlh; Oct 3, 2004 at 12:41 AM.
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Old Oct 3, 2004 | 12:53 AM
  #15  
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rlh
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From: Florida Hill Country
I forgot, Baja Concepts in Fall Brook, Ca still does ttb bent/turned beams. This is the old site with old prices. Baja Concepts (old page)

Edit: I'm on my way to put on my fire proof pajamas!
 

Last edited by rlh; Oct 3, 2004 at 12:56 AM.
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