Anybody have torque/hp/rpm graphs for V10 & PSD?

 

Heres one for rear wheel horsepower from banks: http://bankspower.com/test_results_AF05.cfm

 

Sorry, I meant to add for the '05 V10 & PSD

 

The charts on the supplied link are for a 1999 V10.

I'm looking for the dyno graphs on the '05 V10 as well.

 

I'd also love to see one for the '05 V10 - I drove one this past weekend, and I'm pretty skeptical of the 362hp claims. I finally found one on the lot that was nearly identical to my '04 - crewcab 4x4, Fx4 package, nearly all the same options - and I put 40 miles on it and was less than impressed. Maybe it was faster than my 04 - just maybe - but it would be close enough that I'd have to have a stopwatch to tell the difference. Now, I'll admit that 52hp isn't a lot in a truck this size, so it wouldn't be a huge difference...but I expected to at least notice it. The two logical reasons that it wouldn't feel any faster would be that it wasn't broken in yet and/or the truck gained enough weight to offset the horsepower and torque increase (like when they redesigned the F150 in '04). This is certainly possible...I guess we'll have to see how much the performance changes when the engine is broken in.

I did find that the speed limiter is still set at 96mph...no change there.

Oh, and this truck had the vibration that several other users have noticed - from the frequency I'd guess it's a driveshaft problem. It started vibrating at 35mph or so, and vibrated pretty noticeably at highway speeds. As far as ride and drive, I didn't honestly even notice a difference...it felt a lot like my '04, though it did turn shorter. Maybe I've driven a truck for so long that I'm no longer sensitive enough to know what a good riding vehicle feels like.

LK

 

I also drove an '05 V10 today, also a PSD. What I noticed was the difference in throttle response between the V10 & the PSD, the V10 sure has better response. I also noticed from looking at the specs only the 5.4 has the variable valve timing, I thought it would be on the V10 also.

 

There's going to be some turbo lag on the PSD that you just won't be able to get away from. Once there's plenty of heat in the motor and the turbo is spinning, putting your foot down will give you fairly fast throttle response. Adding a tuner makes the PSD come on quite a bit harder but it will still be less responsive off the line.

The way around that is to do a bit of a brake stand at the stop light and press the throttle a bit while holding the brake. This will build some boost and the truck will rocket away from the light.

Also, even gas race cars with turbos have some delay in throttle response. Many gas turbo road racing drivers actually do the same thing I described above and throttle up while on the brakes in a corner to help accelerate harder out of the corner exit.

 

I have 1275 miles on my new V10 05 3 valve and I know it is a lot faster off the line than my 01 2-valve 310hp version. With my new "not broke in" truck that weighs 400lbs more than my 01 I still experiance acceleration that is faster than all the typical "townies" here and I get out ahead from stop lights by ten truck lengths with out ever busting across 3000rpm.

Contrary to your report I am very impressed with the new motor and whole heartidly recommend it to any one who is sitting the fence.

Thanks for testing the 96mph speed limiter on a brand new motor. I am sure the new owner will enjoy knowing he got a over revved motor that was abused before it got broken in properly.

What vibration do you think is similar to several other users noting? At a particular RPM and speed I can make mine reverberate (not flutter). You can hear and feel the "vibration" but it is entirely a harmonic noise induced tone and vibration that is peculiar to the new V10 exhaust system.

The last three large ford 4X4 trucks I have owned took over 8000 miles to fully break in. I suggest your seat of the pants observations on a brand new 3Valve and your skepticism of the 362 HP may not be all that scientific or valid.

I will also let you in on another little secret: The V10 you tested was mated to a 5R110 TorqueShift transmission with a whole new set of programmed shift points and pressures.

Brand new out of the box it takes a while for it to learn the typical driving conditions and needs of the new owner. For the first 200 miles mine was very soft and gentle on the up and down shifts. Now and it has very definite and crisp shifts. This has a dramatic impact on any seat of the pants feeling of acceleration you may or may not have experienced while you were out on your little joy ride.

 

Little over-revved yourself, eh Top?

The top speed/computer controlled rev-limiter actually prevents over-revving.

 

Fredvon4 -

First off, running the truck to 96mph is not "abusive" or over-revving the engine - at 96mph the tach is showing less than 3,500rpm. However, even if it was at 5,000rpm it still isn't abusive - the correct way to break in a new engine is to run it to high RPMs at or near full-throttle, and then let off the gas and let the engine compression slow you back down. The pressure of running at full throttle seats the rings properly, and the compression braking pulls oil up to the rings to lubricate them and keep them cool.

Many people have the misconception that you need to baby an engine to break it in, but actually the opposite is true - doing that means that the rings never seat properly, which causes a loss in horsepower, efficiency, and causes increased oil consumption. However, the one thing to remember is not to rev a new engine up until it has reach its normal operating temperature...it's fine go up to higher RPMs, but you don't want to do it while the engine is cold. Also, you don't want to hold it at high RPMs - you want to rev it up, and then let off the throttle.

Oh, and yes - I broke my '04 in the same way...and it runs great, uses absolutely no oil between changes, and my oil analysis results were excellent. This wasn't a "joy ride", as I buy a new truck pretty much every year and was seriously considering buying the truck - I might still buy it, I haven't decided for sure. However, I might wait until spring when they have more incentives.

As far as performance, I was only relating my impression - perhaps the difference is that my current truck has 4.30 gears, though that's also what the '05 had. I'm not sure what you had in your '01, but I've noticed that V10s with 3.73 gears don't seem to be nearly as quick on takeoff.

The vibration several users here have reported is a high-frequency vibration, probably caused by either a unbalanced driveshaft or a problem with the alignment of the carrier bearing assembly. Ford engineers are working on this problem, though I'm not sure how long it'll take them to come up with a fix.

And yes, I've very well aware of the new transmission. I'll let YOU in on a little secret - I work as an automotive engineer, and specialize in powertrain components...including working with Ford on the Superduty. So, lose the condescending attitude - I doubt that there's anything you're going to tell me about the transmission of this truck that I don't already know. I wasn't running a scientific experiment, I was reporting my opinions and first impression of the truck - in the past all we've had were test mules and prototypes (many of which were actually modified '04 trucks), and this was the first time I drove the released production version. I just thought that since there aren't many users who have gotten the chance to drive the new V10, I'd relate my own personal experience.

Edited to add: I just noticed that in another post you mention that your new truck has 4.30 gears and your old one had 3.73s - that's a huge part of the performance difference right there.

LK

 

LK:

Way to go. Fred thinks he's an expert on any topic. Glad his arrogance is apparent to you. Notice you spend more time on this forum than doing actual work of you own, Fred. Spin your numbers and selling your new trucks before their time. I countered his expertise one time and was taken to the woodshed immediately with no help from gutless readers. Love it LK and keep watching Fred and his advise.

Tinbarn

 

For all:

Personal attacks will NOT be tolerated.

You got problems with a user? Take it off-line.

 

That's great Monsta. Throttle Fred when he personally flavors anothers opinion. I'm sure you will.

 

Still looking for those dyno charts for the '05 V10 in case anyone runs across them in any new literature that comes out.

Daryl

 

These forums are a communications form that promotes arguments, opinions, facts, and general back and forth conversations in a public setting.

My opinion and argument is with the too prevalent idea that it is OK to “do what you want to” with someone else’s property! I don’t care how any of you break-in your own personal trucks with whatever method you use. But to go to the lot and “test drive” someone else’s vehicle in a manner contrary to good practices, and manufactures recommendations, is abuse in my opinion.

I am tired of this new American "Me, Me, Me and screw you all attitude". This is the same opinion I have about putting chips, propane or NO2, increased line pressures and subsequently break the engine, diff, or transmission. All of a sudden everybody “suggests” you take off all the mods before going to Ford to go cry warranty. This is pure fraud, and we all pay for someone else’s selfish fun! I am NOT against the go fast goodies, just your attitude that when it breaks some how it is some one else’s fault! No I certainly am not the moral police, and I accept that there is no way many of you reading this will ever agree.

Daryl I am sorry to hijack your post. I will post my dyno runs after the first of the year. I never max load a new engine in a vehicle until after 3000 miles.

I build and drag race a 289CI 450HP 65 Ford Falcon Ranchero, Kawasaki KZ1000, and 102Cubic Inch 200+HP Harley Davidson. I currently own five 1999 to 2005 Ford trucks and cars. I am not an engineer, but I am a very good mechanic. I spent 24 years in the U.S Army as an artilleryman, tank automotive mechanic, nuclear weapons specialist, helicopter missile system repairer, and finally as an Apache Helicopter senior mechanic. I am currently a Test Officer for the US Army Operational Tes Command Fort Hood Texas.

Each of you is free to break in your new motor however you prefer. No true motor head or decent mechanic really believes the drive it like you stole it break-in procedure. I also find amusing the notion that if I break her in hard and something breaks, than I am golden because I found the flaw within warranty. OH yea! We all know it is really fun to wait for Ford to repair your new ride.

Proper engine and drive train break-in requires many cold to hot back to cold heat cycles. Regarding the piston ring to cylinder wall seal; too hot and too fast is bad, too cool and too slow is equally bad.

Below are a few excerpts from many popular oil mfg web sites, and a few other just general break-in advices from folks like S&S or Banks, or good old FoMoCo!

Another thought; I seem to recall there is a fairly large contingent in the V10 forum that can't seem to explain why most of us get 3 to 5 thousand miles with ZERO oil usage. But there are about a third of you posting complaints of 1 quart every 1500 miles. Hummm, I wonder if improper break-in could be a contributor.

Excerpts from a few web sites:

We recommend using a quality mineral-based oil for break-in purposes. As a general rule, follow your engine builder's guidelines. On street setups, the rings should seat within the first three or four times the engine is brought to temperature. After the rings have seated, change to Royal Purple®. It is not recommended to break in an engine using Royal Purple®, as the film strength of the oil may not allow proper seating of the rings.Breaking in an engine is a process of properly wearing-in the pistons/cylinders/rings, bearings, valves, camshaft, lifters, rockers, etc...

In addition, part of the breaking in process is not only wearing-in and seating the internal engine components but also stress relieving the components as well. Crankshafts, connecting rods, pistons, blocks etc... have many stresses due to the casting or forging process, machining and welding process. We have viewed and measured these stresses, called fringes, using what is called lazer holography. These stresses are properly reduced/eliminated by costly and time consuming heat aging as well as shot peening and or high frequency vibration on a very specialized bedplate for an extended period of time. For production applications this is cost and time prohibitive. Therefore, the next best thing is exposing your engine to multiple heating and cooling cycles under various load and RPM's, which is described in the following paragraph.

The purpose of engine break-in is to establish the overall piston, ring and cylinder wear patterns without causing damage to any of these parts. This "break-in" usually takes from 50 to 2000 miles, depending on the engine and how it was built.For a better understanding about engine break-in, we should examine what really happens inside the cylinders during the break-in period.As the piston travels up and down within the cylinder bore, friction generated from the new piston rings on the freshly bored cylinder walls causes the edges of the rings to get extremely hot. This process is necessary to properly "seat" the rings, pistons and cylinder wall mating surfaces. If they get too hot, they begin to wear excessively and prevent the seating process from taking place.By gently increasing and decreasing engine rpm, heat buildup between the pistons and cylinder walls becomes more tolerable as oil is replenished to reduce friction and cool the mating surfaces.

Be sure that the time of acceleration is not too long. Several short bursts are adequate to generate enough heat to assure proper piston ring seating while not harming the engine.The first 50 miles are the most critical for new rings and piston break-in. Most engine damage will initially occur during this period. Remember that if proper ring seating does not take place, the resultant blow-by will set the stage for possible future damage because there won't be sufficient oil on the cylinder walls for proper lubrication. So keep the heat down by not exceeding 2500 rpm.

And vary the speed.There is no cook book formula for proper engine break-in. Common sense and knowing what is really happening inside those cylinders are the best tools for break-in.

Most people seem to operate on the philosophy that they can best get their money's worth from any mechanical device by treating it with great care. This is probably true, but in many cases it is necessary to interpret what great care really means. This is particularly applicable when considering the break-in of a modern, reciprocating engine.We must achieve a happy medium where we are pushing on the ring hard enough to wear it in but not hard enough to generate enough heat to cause glazing.

For the first ride, warm the engine up being careful not to over rev or let idle extensively. After warm-up, gently accelerate through each gear using about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle as a shift point. DO NOT BOG or LUG the engine and DO NOT "cruise" at a steady rpm. Vary the engine speed up and down at all times. DO NOT OVER REV either! When you reach top gear immediately slow down and ride back to your origin doing the same thing. Limit your initial ride time to 15 - 20 minutes. When you're done with the initial ride, let it cool down to COLD again.Continue this procedure gradually extending the running time. You can also gradually get a bit more aggressive with throttle application. Speed up, slow down, constantly varying throttle position and going up and down through the gears. Steady cruising at one engine speed or lugging below it's powerband in a higher gear can cause overheating during break-in...AVOID BOTH! Stay away from long hills or heavy loads during break-in.

I do NOT apologize for the long post. A simple search of Dogpile or Google turns up a lot of good info on general and specific engine break in processes.