What is "EOP" ?

 

It a group VI base oil . Ethylene Alpha Olefin Polymer is reported to cost less to produce that PAO, to have similar characteritics as PAO but has a higher vi index along with the same miscibility as PAO for additives , which of course should require a carrier .

PIB's .

 

What is "miscibility"?

 

It means it has good solubility or mixes easily.

I wish Group III had never been classified as syn<!>thetic. IMO it only holds it back because it will always be compared to PAO syn<!>thetic and will never rise above that it in the public's perception. The money and research technology is behind the Group III hydroprocessed oils. IMO they will only get better, cost less and become more widely used.

 

Thanks Scott.

Rusty, I checked out the local Wally World and Advance Auto and all they had was Delo and Rotella in 15w, along with some synthetic Rotella T which was 5w40. I forgot the exact price now but IIRC the synthetic Rotella wasn't much (if any) more of a bargain than my 2 dollar/quart Castrol GTX HM.

And the Rotella T as me wondering, isn't it the general consensus of the board that 5w40 oils have a little bit of too much of a weight "span" then we would prefer? Has something to do with needing more "polymers" to help bridge the gap, which themselves are succeptible to shearing. At least I thought that was the consensus after reading several good threads on the subject. So, is the Rotella T something different that goes against that line of reasoning?

 

You dont have any redneck farm & barn type stores to check? That'd be the place.

The Rotella T synthetic is synthetic, so it will use very few if any VII polymers. The viscosity index of the base oil is very high to begin with, so it doesn't need 'em. I agree that a dino oil with that spread would not be good. Now I'm not one to be promoting synthetics, but this one with it's better diesel additive package and 5w40 grade seems like just the thing for a winter oil.

 

Well, ExpyDude, I was about to ask if there was any point to a High Mileage oil that "lasts longer," if I am changing oil very 3,000 miles. I have a 454 Suburban with over 197,000 on it. I try to change every 3,000, though I recently made a road trip to Iowa and back here to Washington; that had me at 4,000 between changes. It did not use a quart. I generally fill the 7 quart engine with 6 quarts of Castrol GTX 20-50 and one quart of Hilton Hy-Per Lube. I am sometimes stuck with Fram filters (I'll take the TG5 over the PH5), but prefer the AC or NAPA.

I'm also using the 20-50 in an old loose International 304. A Mechanic friend says I'm nuts to use it in my Subaru, so I tend toward 10-30 in winter. In my '77 F250 (my "$500 work truck"), I've got Chevron Supreme 10-30, mostly because it is cheaper. Same stuff is in my '88 Buick LeSabre and my son's '79 Honda Accord. In the accord, we tried Lucas oil additive instead of Hy-Per Lube.

My thought was that the older and looser engines could use the 20-50 to keep hot oil pressure up. My Mechanic friend warns me that modern engines can have tight tolerances and I should use lighter oil.

Too bad Costco won't sell Castrol 20-50.....

 

EOP(-PAO): "is reported to cost less to produce that (current) PAO" ... gosh not sure who would be using this stuff as basestock or if commercially availablity in quantity; I checked a bit, and this some semi-new technology...more of a "big tweak" in the process engineering for PAOs. In general, for finished oil components it's about cost to meet a defined level of Quality (irrespective of marketing) and I'd expect group III's to grow and not see much PAO/alternate PAO used in mainline "synthetics" in significant quantites. VERY hard to make PAO-specific & cogent marketing claims period, especially to a normal consumer. It is about COST at a specified level of performance and GIII is getting more plentiful globally...especially as GTL technology grows over the next 10 years. Not sure any PAO would cost less than GIII, but I am not a base oil/Refinery person...

Hmmm...you are the type of customer oil & automotive chemical companies like a lot. THANKS. Obvioulsy, you've not been hurting your vehicles and care about getting good service, so congradulations on following a logical regimen.

My advice, personally, would be a bit different, and very very very very likley get you to the same place wear-wise for less money.

1. NO aftermarket oil additives(AMAs). I make NO judgements at all on the specific products you use, but IN GENERAL, MANY-MOST aftermarket chemicals are "over claimed" OR misleading OR fibs OR plain unecessary. I know this first-hand as an insider. PCMO is a darn complicated chemical mix, GF2/3/4 were/are darn good specifications alone insofar as protection & perfomance --- if the Manufacturer is sincere about QC. I really would not mess with the Manufaturer's oil chemistry for clearly non-quantifiable/attributable/measurable benefits; yes I used some famous AMAs long ago too hahaha...but I know better now. Two Exceptions are some motor honey for OLD engines to "slow the bleeding" (viscosity upper like STP) & seal swell for old gaskets.

2. 20W-50 is OK in older motors---the high vis logic has some validity, but I'd use 10W-30 (or grade in owners manual) and save some gasoline unless you had big consumption. I asumme you are not where it is cold starts in (<32F). Not a fan of 10W-40, too much VI ususally.

2A. I'd buy something cheaper than Castrol, but major branded.

3. 10W-30 (or primay grade in owners manual if lighter) is fine for the other vehicles too as you indicated.

4. As for HMMOs "lasting longer" not sure they can materially do that and meet API specs...same for API synthetics...it is a small window to formaulate in. None of them make that claim I think...soooo you would need used oil testing to prove it.

5. I am not a FRAM filter fan for all the well-known construction reasons. That said, I am sorta OK with them for 7500 mile or less changes (normal use interval that they HAVE to test to to be OEM equal---but do not claim in marketing to help sell premium units)...but any other unit makes me' "feel" better. I like PureONE (or even regular Purolator) and Motorcraft for value. Champion Labs made ones are good values too.

6. Unless you have really nasty driving condtions (almost never warm up engine OR dusty all the time)...I'd likley go to a 5000 / 6-7 month OCI with the new (good & cheaper) oil. Run a test lab if you are worried, but you and you vehicles will be fine. You will actually be OK at 7500 in most all cases, but 5000 is conservative. 3000 is a waste of time and oil. It really is (speaking as an Engineer). Modern oil is VERY good. I appreciate 3000 mile changes as a conservative, very conservative reccomendation. If you feell better...by all means go ahead...wont hurt & helps sell oil.

Sorry my regemin is just more boring, a little cheaper and a bit less work. But you efforts obvioulsy work for you, seem not to harm matters, and I wish you and you fleet the best. Above, is just where my experience places the maintenance plan for me.

 

I certainly appreciate the input. I have mixed feelings about additives, too. Had an old family friend, heck of a diesel mechanic, who liked Hy-Per Lube. He's gone now. I read a while back about a comparison -- I think Briggs & Stratton did it, but don't quote me on that -- they took the familiar Slick 50 sales trick, where the small engine is started, then the oil drained and the engine run for some time without oil. Turns out you can do the same trick without Slick 50, and the laboratory measured wear is a bit LESS than with the Slick 50 treated engine.

Fellow I know at the parts house says he likes Lucas Oil Stabilizer better than Hy-Per Lube for keeping the smoke to a minimum in his old rig. I don't know -- he's selling Lucas for more money. I sort of wanted to keep the viscosity up and leakage down. And my kid's '79 Accord smokes a little bit -- just rolled over 100,000 miles a few days ago.

Now I wish I'd done a comparison test. I got a bit worse mileage than expected on our recent trip to Iowa in the Suburban. It might have been interesting to drive one way with 20-50, then change to 10-30 for the return trip. As I recall, with our '93, then the '96 I bought after Wife rolled the '93, the dealership liked 10-30 Castrol, even though the factory writes "5-30" on the oil cap. I've been given to understand 5-30 is specified to give a slight gain in Corporate Average Fuel Economy, but it does not necessarily give the longest engine life.

I live in the comparatively mild climate of Western Washington. I drive 50 miles before I see a traffic signal light. Would you say I'm being a bit more conservative than necessary in my oil changes? I see the manual had two "duty cycles," one with 3,000 mile changes, and one with 6,000 mile changes.

I honestly don't know how much good the heavy additives will do me. It seems like they'd offer extra protection where tolerances are getting sloppy, and perhaps a bit better startup protection. But that may be mostly my imagination. If I was serious about longevity, I'd have a pre-oiler. And I do have an engine heater in a couple of the rigs -- my job and company housing includes free electricity -- sure wish my rentals used that kind of electricity.

Oops, quitting time. Gotta run.

Lane

 

Yep no faith in TV "tests" and anecdotal work.

Some vis can be OK to reduce leaks and maybe add a bit of oil film, but it only matters if the oil film fails (which it wont)...depends on surface loading/speed which is ***engineered*** into the engine design at given work levels.

Might be hard to see MPG gains w/o precise instrumentation and controlled conditions but gains HAVE to be there 1-2% I guess. It is physics.

Most AMAs sell because of "imagination", but then again so does Tommy Wear, Nike stuff, and Donna Karen ....

Yeah, you are too conservative with OCI almost guaranteed. Might take the non-Castrol cheaper major brand 10W30 used oil, and send some to Blackstone Labs or other after a 5000 mile OCI. Test you most "abused" engine, or test them all. ONCE. $30 including TBN. It exactly how the fleets do it.

Hehehe - pre oilers !!!...YUP they work big-time on spendy construction & other high$ equipment, but add cost and complexity. Long haul trucks get 1MM miles without them. Some vocational units do use them IRRC (Garbage trucks, special purpose units that are off-on all day)...If used on cars/LTs we'd be in rusty frames with rotten plastic, scratched glass, duct tape and disintegrated seats...but a 1MM engine on a 35++ y.o. grocery getter! LOL

 

Quote:
"4. As for HMMOs "lasting longer" not sure they can materially do that and meet API specs...same for API synthetics...it is a small window to formaulate in. None of them make that claim I think...soooo you would need used oil testing to prove it."

Some sure do and has been quantified through analysis .

One of the HM's actually cleans and I can quantify that also .

Shell has that EOP ready for go , I don't know what is holding them back ?

Group III , smoop III I'll buy some when it is two bucks per quart ... glorified group II

 

Quaker State High Mileage is pretty good stuff.

 

None of the states I've been in do that.

 

Ive had a good run with Castrol GTX High Mileage Oil. Go to www.castrolusa.com chek em out....

 

Thats good motor oil there . TBN is usually double when the interval is over compared to plain oils .

Like 8-9 months and 3-5 k miles with TBN 6 all the way up to 8 and TBN is what you want at end of drain that way new oil TBN is not used up rapidly when changed which can or does lead to a cycle of sludge .

Anyway you spin it , most but not all the HM oils are worth it if you need it .