I noticed some really bad turbo lag in my '03 F 350. I also had a recall notice so I took the truck to the local Ford stealer. They told me that the PCM was not talking to the VGT (variable geometry turbo). That made sense because the truck would barely get off the line but once the motor got up to mid 2thousands, it would really kick ask.

Problem is that now the stealership is telling me that PCMs are not available and will call me when one is. This will be warranty work (I ASSUME!) but does this sound right? Out of PCMs? I suppose they are making all the 6.0 compnents they can because of demand for these things is unreal.

Any suggestions for me?

Big

 

actually,
the symptom you are describing is normal lag experienced on MOST turbo charged vehicles....
and there are a few ways to improve that.... but

I question the PCM going bad... yours would be the first I've heard about...

I would suggest that maybe you are not talking to a certifed 6.0 mechanic but rather a parts changer...
maybe tell them "Thankyouverymuch" in an Elvis voice and
RUN to another dealer before they mess up your truck...

 

I should have posted this in the 6.0L forum. I didn't realize where I was. Ooops.

Anyway, the turbo lag on this is really really bad. It is borderline unsafe. My wife has a turbo Volvo, and I have driven several turbo cars. I understand there will be some lag there but this is really bad.

To add a little to the story, I have a friend that works at International who did some checking with some of his co-workers for me. His guy said I should go see Jeff at this dealership because Jeff is the 6.0L guru there. Now, I didn't talk to Jeff, I just spoke with the service writer. Next time I go in there, I am going to ask to talk with Jeff to see what is really going on.

My truck, for what it is worth, is a late '03 with an engine build date of I think 12/31/03. Not sure what the flash is, AND the truck is a Canadian truck that was imported to the US. Not sure if that matters, other than the headlights are on all the time. All the gauges are english, but the owner's manual is in english words but all the distance intervals are KMs.

 

If your engine build date is 12/31/03...would be an '04 engine in an '03 truck. Highly unusual but not improbable if your engine was replaced.

Please confirm. Could you have meant to say 12/31/02 build date?

In addition, if PCM's are in short supply I would be more likely to think that just maybe Ford is in high production mode for the '05 PSD.

 

Have a shade trees understanding of some differences in turbo vehicles... I've had at least 4 of them...
but lag is really a factor of turbo size and responsiveness to the exhaust stream...
the volvo's turbo is probably 1/3 the size of the 6-oh's...

also the fact that your volvo weighs about 1/3 ? of what your truck weighs so the 4/6 cylinder motor can get your car going pre turbo boost....

you're also comparing apples and oranges unless your volvo is a diesel too
My sister had a nice volvo turbo before she got her Lexi and it stepped out pretty well.... for a little 4 cylinder

Mine is the bad build month April/May 03 - I forget - and if I NEED to go quickly...
I just do left foot braking and a little throttle to build boost and it will GO !!!
and if I want to leave VERY quickly, I put it in 4x4, brake stand until about 2K rpms and get about a 2.0 second 60 foot launch...
and if I want a new set of rear tires, I just continue to stand on the brake in 4x2 until about 2500 rpms when the rears overpower the brakes and start to squall

turbo lag is just the nature of a HEAVY turbocharged diesel vehicle...

OBTW,
some have reported much less turbo lag with the predator tuner,
others have reported improved turbo response by disconnecting the egr wire...

 

Hey Bubba,

I haven't heard anything about bad pcm's. But I suppose anything is possible. As far as the stock issue, my dealer down here anyways will get 2-3 6.0s every other week and they are gone before they get the next 2 or 3. Also, don't ever believe a service writer. They know nothing. They are just as useless as parts changers. ONLY TALK TO A DIESEL TECH!!! Make it WELL KNOWN at your dealership you ONLY want a diesel tech and a diesel maintenance guy working on your truck. Be VERY firm about this!

Best of Luck,
Corey

*Parts Changers*

 

I should have posted this in the 6.0L forum. I didn't realize where I was. Ooops.

You are there now!!!

 

Ok so I did some checking under the hood. I found some interesting stickers labled, "Authorized Modifications" Here is what they had:

#1:
"03B03 Calibration"
3U7A-12A650 CUA <or> GUA

Dealer: [blank]
Change Authority: A2263
Date: 9-5-03

#2:
"Updated PCM calibration"
3U7A-12A650-FTC
Dealer: 03756 [or] 09756
Change Authority:WD9 (I think)

Anybody know what these are? Are they Flashes? I bought the truck used about 10,000 miles ago so I don't know about its previous service history.

VIN for my truck is 1FTSW31P13EC25085
The only markings on the PCM that I can see(between battery and LF fender) are:
BKG8
DPU-232
EEOFA-3B022

I looked at the engine sticker and it was built on 1-31-03 not the 12-31-03 like I thought. That would be New Year's Eve and I don't think the UAW would be working on that day no matter what the demand for the six oh. Heck, I wouldn't either.

Now as far as the turbo lag issue, weather this rig weighs 8000 lbs or 2000 lbs with a blown four banger, the lag my truck has is BAD! That is what the Variable Geometry Turbo is supposed to deal with. Its vanes produce more boost at lower RPMs (thus lower exhaust gas volumes) and less boost at higher RPMs (more EG volume). I suppose they decided the VGT was easier than a variable wastegate. That is fine as long as my PCM can tell it what to do. Which is where I am - still no PCM to tell my turbo what to do. It has only been about two weeks and the truck is driveable so I can't complain. In fact, I try to go really easy in town to keep the milage up so I really didn't think the lag was that big of a deal until I pulled out when I shouldn't have thinking that I would be able to beat this car coming. I push the pedal to the floor and there was almost nothing there. Anyway, I am rambling .

And as far as this goes:
I should have posted this in the 6.0L forum. I didn't realize where I was. Ooops.
You are there now!!!
I never know where the heck I am. That is why I got married!

Big

 

Assuming you've driven other 6.0's for comparison and your truck 'truely' has a flat throttle..

First, How many total miles are on the clock now??

Second, If my rig had 'ANY' issues that I/dealer deemed unsafe.. It would be a collecting dust in Fords parking lot, and I'd be making 'endless' phone calls to FOMOCO .. PCM failures aren't a usual failure, and it's hard to believe there's not one available somewhere throughout the Ford network.. And, if Ford has 'already' admitted theres a problem with your truck, then their obligated to a fix/loaner if under warranty.. Not just to have you drive until pieces come available!! (unless its your decision) If they can't fix it (PCM or otherwise) they'd be giving me something to drive.. Plus, if Ford is paying for a rental vehicle, it may force them to 'find' the parts to get'r up and running.. I'd take it to another dealer/tech for a second opinion/diagnosis 'and' the documentation from 'both' for proof, or at least for an 'agreed' diagnosis to force the issue..

......................HP.......................... ...

 

Yes, those are the RC3 April 03 and RC8 Dec 03 flashes. The RC8 is the latest for the 03 engines.

As far as lag goes, I have an early 03 and it runs great. If I am stopped and just push the pedal to the floor. It just sits there for a full second maybe two before the boost kicks in. If I get the engine to 1500 rpm and then go for it. It goes. If I stand on the brakes, wind it up to 1800 rpm or higher, let off the brake and floor it, it takes off like a bullet. If you stand on the brake and go to 2000 rpm, I will smoke the rear tires and begin to fish tail.

So yeah, I guess I have some turbo lag, but the bigger the turbo, the more the lag. That's why the VGT. The 04s have three more variable vanes than the 03. It might make some difference. Don't compare to a gasser with a small turbo. Not the same thing.

 

Fords view on turbo lag…dead stopped, stand on the throttle to the floor…. if it takes under 4.9 seconds, or less to get up to 1650 RPM and the truck starts to move …then you are in the design parameters set by the engineers.

 

Wow! 4.9 seconds is unreal. I have to go out to my truck and see what 4.9 seconds is in that scenario.

one-onethousand
two-onethousand
three-onethousand
four-onethousand
five-oneth..

That sounds, uh, excessive to me.

big

 

Big - A couple of things...
If the PCM goes...it goes, completely. If the PCM was out, the truck is likely to be dead on the spot.
You can reprogram the PCM by disconnecting the batteries for a minute and then go through the battery replacement sequence in the owners manual.
Another sometimes self inflicted performance issue is filling the oil past the add oil mark on the dip stick. The engine should never have more than 13.5 quarts added at an oil change because there is at least 1.05 quarts in the high pressure oil system that doesn't drain. Excess oil level will get beaten to a foam by the crankshaft. Oil foam will not operate the hydraulically actuated parts like the VGT valve and the injectors. Both of which could cause aparent "turbo lag". Tim Lampkin once measured all the dip sticks in Albuquerque and found a considerable difference so don't rely on the stick to fine tune your oil level.

 

4.9??? Yikes!! Thats a half a cup of morning coffee for me..

Mine has 'some' lag as average, (1/03) more so on a WOT/dead stop.. Diesels all will.. And I've 'always' got, and stayed into the habit of 'spiking' the throttle a tad pulling through intersections, or on a ramp launch ect. EVEN with my gassers.. I cut it close sometimes in the commute, have to, and have to allow for 'reaction' time as well.. (an age thing) But in my commute 4.9 secs. for power build could be a little scary.. If you were talk'n a rolling downshift to get boost and max torque, 4.9 don't sound so bad..

4.9 seconds. I could go from 'zero' to 'jail' in that time on the scoot!!

..........................HP...................... ....

 

You know, that is what I was wondering.

I suppose I should try that. The mechanic at the Ford stealership didn't do that because all of my radio presets were still there. That and the seatbelt minder and auto lock were still turned off. I did hear of a different way to reset "the computer" ( I presume PCM) was something like this:

turn the key off
turn the key on
press the gas pedal to the floor like maybe 3 times real quick like
turn the key off

Maybe that was just to reset the CEL. Didn't reset the codes just shut off the idiot light. Maybe the mechanic did that.


This is the second thing I will do. Maybe this weekend I will change the oal. I am just about due and I am sure I put more than 14 quarts in.

Finally, if I do get a new PCM, would that be like getting a 05 motor in this truck. In otherwords, the PCM is what controls the engine - makes the six oh what it is so to speak, right? So aside from obvious mechanical differences (like the number of turbo vanes I read about), the new PCM would make this engine like the newest engines going in (with that particular vintage PCM), right? You know, it is kind of odd that with my truck, sometimes I have pilot injection upon startup (based upon noise level) and sometimes it seems like I don't (again, based upon noise). It seems that the PI is 'off' when I restart the engine warm, not first thing in the morning. Maybe that would be cured one way or the other with a new PCM.

Ah, the price we pay for the best truck on the market.

Big