Propane vs. fuel injection
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Spokane, WA
Propane vs. fuel injection
Anyone have thoughts on propane vs fuel injection for a trail rig looking to see some crazy angles? Are there advantages/disadvantages to one over the other? I'm looking at this for a 302 or 351W. I'm somewhat familiar with the Impco LP conversions and know that propane is high octane allowing for a great compression ratio. Other than that I'm clueless and I don't know anything about fuel injection.
Post Fiend
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From: Oregon
About all I know is that propane injection is simpler and you can run flat out stupid compression ratios. Didn't help much, huh? Its the "simple" part that I like. I want to see whats up with running propane gas over liquid propane. I figure once the bombs start dropping it will that much simpler to get your truck to run off methane if its already set up for propane. Methane will always be in ready supply...
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Post Fiend
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From: Spokane, WA
I don't know all the details as to why but I know it's typically recommended that you use liquid instead of gas for any kind of vehicle. Therefore guys using propane tanks from BBQ's have to install them upside down. You have some sort of device that prevents your line from freezing up at the carb when the liquid converts to gas. But again, I'm not sure why they prefer liquid.
The high compression deal is what I like about it. I'm getting really tempted to buy that BII and will (eventually) put a stroked 302 or 351 in there. Just trying to figure out why route to go.
The high compression deal is what I like about it. I'm getting really tempted to buy that BII and will (eventually) put a stroked 302 or 351 in there. Just trying to figure out why route to go.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Oregon
Yea, most everybody uses lp but I know you can use it in its gaseous form...its just more complicated. I've always thought it would be cool to set it up that way because methane wouldn't be that far off. Then you could run it off poo juice 
I think you NEED that BII
I think you NEED that BII
Postmaster
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From: Pittsburgh
You use liquid because it's something along the lines of 100 times more compressed than gaseous. If you were to try to run a tank of gaseous propane you'd have to have one the size of the entire rear of a BII to make it around the block. (A bit of an exaggeration, but close enough).
EDIT: Also gaseous propane is highly explosive. LP is basically inert until it vaporizes.
Also, just going propane you lose ALOT of power (15% ish). You actually have to go nuts with teh compression just to get back to where you were before, but you can go nuts past that to get some more.
The easiest setup is to run a carburetor that the propane injects directly into, that way if need be you can swap back to gas if you lose a LP line or soemthing like that.
BUT, between FI and propane I'd go propane in a heartbeat. it will run at ANY angle (FI starves if the fuel pump is uncovered), burns super clean, and is hella cheap.
Look around, there are plenty of "How to"s online.
Justin
EDIT: Also gaseous propane is highly explosive. LP is basically inert until it vaporizes.
Also, just going propane you lose ALOT of power (15% ish). You actually have to go nuts with teh compression just to get back to where you were before, but you can go nuts past that to get some more.
The easiest setup is to run a carburetor that the propane injects directly into, that way if need be you can swap back to gas if you lose a LP line or soemthing like that.
BUT, between FI and propane I'd go propane in a heartbeat. it will run at ANY angle (FI starves if the fuel pump is uncovered), burns super clean, and is hella cheap.
Look around, there are plenty of "How to"s online.
Justin
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Post Fiend
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From: Spokane, WA
Why do you use a lot of power with propane? 
Not arguing but I just don't understand it. Propane is approximately 115 octane. That should equate to a power increase but also allow you to run something stupid like a 12.5:1 or even higher.
Also, "gas" propane systems don't take up any more room than LP. ALL your propane is liquid while bottled, from your camp lanterns to BBQ's to rigs (that's why they call is LPG for "liquid propane gas" vs. LP for plain old "liquid propane"). The difference is most will feed off the top of the tank, as the liquid depressurizes and becomes a gas whereas with a LP setup you are feeding from the bottom of your tank, bringing the liquid itself through the line.
Not arguing but I just don't understand it. Propane is approximately 115 octane. That should equate to a power increase but also allow you to run something stupid like a 12.5:1 or even higher.Also, "gas" propane systems don't take up any more room than LP. ALL your propane is liquid while bottled, from your camp lanterns to BBQ's to rigs (that's why they call is LPG for "liquid propane gas" vs. LP for plain old "liquid propane"). The difference is most will feed off the top of the tank, as the liquid depressurizes and becomes a gas whereas with a LP setup you are feeding from the bottom of your tank, bringing the liquid itself through the line.
Last edited by ivanribic; Sep 8, 2004 at 04:28 PM.
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Chatsworth, CA
i think propane is just a poor man's fuel injection. if you have the money do it right and go fuel injection. i haven't seen any aftermarket fulie systems for ford big blocks though.
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Postmaster
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From: Rep. of Texas
Get an '05 powerstroke, NOS, Propane, Chip it, twin turbo, water injection, etc. and youll be doing good...
Go propane, UNLESS FI is only 100-200 more than the propane (kit and a full tank) because youll pay for the FI depending on usage, that is eventually.
Go propane, UNLESS FI is only 100-200 more than the propane (kit and a full tank) because youll pay for the FI depending on usage, that is eventually.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Spokane, WA
That makes sense brokebronco.
My hesitation about fuel injection is I don't want more electronics to worry about. The vehicle will probably see a fair amount of time in the water and muck too so the less I have to worry about the better. Of course I could always mount the computer in the cab up high so that's not TOO big a deal.
My hesitation about fuel injection is I don't want more electronics to worry about. The vehicle will probably see a fair amount of time in the water and muck too so the less I have to worry about the better. Of course I could always mount the computer in the cab up high so that's not TOO big a deal.
Elder User
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From: Bay area
I am currently running gas. I have thought about pane but I have ultimatly decided to go with TBI injection on my engine. Since there was never any EFI ever designed for it TBI is pretty much bolt on to the intake, hook up some wires and a few hoses and I am good to go.
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From: GANS
Originally Posted by ivanribic
Why do you use a lot of power with propane? Not arguing but I just don't understand it. Propane is approximately 115 octane. That should equate to a power increase but also allow you to run something stupid like a 12.5:1 or even higher.
Also, "gas" propane systems don't take up any more room than LP. ALL your propane is liquid while bottled, from your camp lanterns to BBQ's to rigs (that's why they call is LPG for "liquid propane gas" vs. LP for plain old "liquid propane"). The difference is most will feed off the top of the tank, as the liquid depressurizes and becomes a gas whereas with a LP setup you are feeding from the bottom of your tank, bringing the liquid itself through the line.
Not arguing but I just don't understand it. Propane is approximately 115 octane. That should equate to a power increase but also allow you to run something stupid like a 12.5:1 or even higher.Also, "gas" propane systems don't take up any more room than LP. ALL your propane is liquid while bottled, from your camp lanterns to BBQ's to rigs (that's why they call is LPG for "liquid propane gas" vs. LP for plain old "liquid propane"). The difference is most will feed off the top of the tank, as the liquid depressurizes and becomes a gas whereas with a LP setup you are feeding from the bottom of your tank, bringing the liquid itself through the line.
Now, when you are talking about natural gas, as Hoxiii said, you'd have to carry a huge tank to drive like 100miles...
I think I am going to run propane once I put a blower on my 351w. That way I can run 8.5:1 compression with at least 10psi of boost and not detonant.
Posting Guru
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From: Florida Hill Country
Originally Posted by jopey
I am currently running gas. I have thought about pane but I have ultimatly decided to go with TBI injection on my engine. Since there was never any EFI ever designed for it TBI is pretty much bolt on to the intake, hook up some wires and a few hoses and I am good to go.
I'm currently back to propane consideration. There are 2 ways, dual fuel set up and straight propane. The later is better for performance etc but you have to run propane only. The first option is more flexible, but it doesn't do that great on either and the engine really needs to built to run on propane . . . dang . . . I'm back to efi . . .
Postmaster
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From: Pittsburgh
Yep, lower BTU count AND 115 octane only helps if the motor can take adavntage of the higher octane rating. the 115 means it's harder to burn, so if you have a motor that won't knock on 87 you actually lose power going to 115 since it takes more initial energy to burn. But go ape with compression and you'll be back and then some.
Justin
Justin