rearend roll
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 162
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From: WV
rearend roll
i hope this question has'nt been wore out already. if it has please point me in the right direction. i have put a 6" suspension lift on my 78 4x4. i let someone else drive my truck the other day while i drove another vehicle. i noticed that the axle was rolling forward and backward due to the shifting of the springs. i think this is wearing my u-joints out prematurely. i also noticed when i drive the truck that it raises up when forward motion is hindered by say holding the brake or trying to crawl up on a rock, steep rut, or rice burner hood(for real). i now know that is caused by the roll of the axle. what i need to know is there a way to fix it. i work in a metal fab shop so i could fabricate something if i knew what to fab. i saw one truck that had shocks running horizontal hooked to the axle housing at one end and a frame bracket at the other. i assume this roll is what this guy was trying to solve. ok sorry this is so long.
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 637
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From: Forest Hill, MD
Was the rear lift springs or blocks? A full spring lift should eliminate this problem. The problem with blocks is that they increase the leverage the axle has on the spring, creating spring wrap. You could just run the blocks and add traction or ladder bars and that should help your problem too.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,739
Likes: 3
From: GANS
Ah- the wonders of spring or axle wrap as I call it. If you have rear suspension lift blocks as psdpower mentions, that will get your some wicked axle wrap. L&L products has "traction bars" that control this.
http://www.landlproducts.com/laddertractionbars.htm
take a look at those, and copy the pattern. Put some heim joints on one end, and you'll be set to go.
http://www.landlproducts.com/laddertractionbars.htm
take a look at those, and copy the pattern. Put some heim joints on one end, and you'll be set to go.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 8,238
Likes: 3
From: Oregon
The problem with those L&L's and all the rest like it is they suck off-road. Majorly limit any articulation. Better off to use a shackle design like at Sam's offroad or make one with a slip joint like I did. ORU sells one that uses a slipjoint, but they want $1100 for it 
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 162
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From: WV
i agree with ya proeliator. i looked at some ladder bars and i can make them but it looked like they would get in the way in the mud and hills. as for the other stuff you mentioned i am lost. if you dont mind would you give a dummy more info on that setup your talking about???
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 8,238
Likes: 3
From: Oregon
The solid ladder bars act as a solid link that severly limits your axle from cycling during articulation. The Sam's Offroad ladder bar uses a front shackle that can droop and allow some articulation. My design, which bears faint similarity in theory to the ORU $$$ link uses a simple slip joint that allows full articulation without allowing axle wrap. I also designed mine for full clearance. Ivan was out last weekend and took some pictures of them...maybe he'll see this and post a pic.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,945
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From: Spokane, WA
Offroad Unlimited sells traction bars that prevent the axle from twisting but hace slipjoints so the traction bar can basically compress when you're articulating. I don't know where they came up with this idea. 
But they come with a hefty price tag too: http://www.offroadunlimited.com/stor...roducts_id=116
EDIT: Ah, you beat me to it. I'll get that pic up in a couple minutes.
But they come with a hefty price tag too: http://www.offroadunlimited.com/stor...roducts_id=116
EDIT: Ah, you beat me to it. I'll get that pic up in a couple minutes.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 8,238
Likes: 3
From: Oregon
My original intent was to sell my design to a big company and let them make them, now that I have it copyright protected. Maybe I should just make and sell a few here and there to those interested or just the designs to those handy enough to replicate them?
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 162
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From: WV
had i been more patient i would'nt have this problem at all. i told the man where i bought the lift that i wanted arched springs and he kept trying to talk me into more blocks and reuse my old ones. my whole point of this suspension lift was to get a NEW suspension. i had to argue with the man to get arched springs. that should have told me to go elsewhere to start with. it was a 2 hour drive to pick the kit up when they called and said my springs were in. they did'nt look like they had enough arch for a 6" lift but i had done went through enough trouble so i took them a said DARN IT i'll just use my factory 3" blocks. now i wish i had'nt been so impatient.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 162
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From: WV
i see ivan is gonna put those pics up that you mentioned. i cant wait to see your design. be thinking about a price tag on those plans in case i want to build some like it. keep in mind i aint rich.....lol
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 8,238
Likes: 3
From: Oregon
Well, considering that the ORU set sells for $1100 before shipping, and my design is much better anyways, I figure the plans would be a steal at $95. I'm not out to get rich. I mainly designed mine because I was fed up with the drawbacks to the designs of what was available.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 162
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From: WV
i dont guess that sounds too awfully bad. and i am still having sticker shock from that 1100.00 price tag at oru. sometimes i'm really glad i work in a metal shop. cause i know how much that tube and other parts cost and i just dont see them things being worth anywhere near that.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,945
Likes: 3
From: Spokane, WA
Sorry that took so long. I realized I didn't have photoshop installed on my new PC yet and didn't want to post a giant picture (Pro's truck is huge incase you didn't know . . . which means all my pictures of his truck are huge too 
). So I had to crop it and shrink it down a bit. Besides the slipjoint I like the arch design as it gives a lot of ground clearance. They're also positioned just right so if he dragged over a log or something they'd protect the driveline.
). So I had to crop it and shrink it down a bit. Besides the slipjoint I like the arch design as it gives a lot of ground clearance. They're also positioned just right so if he dragged over a log or something they'd protect the driveline.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 8,238
Likes: 3
From: Oregon
Well, as much as I think that price is nuts too, you have to factor in design and testing costs. Anybody can put a design to paper, but then you have to do the math, figure out the proper geometry, build some sets, tweak the design, build some more, field test and beat on them, etc. The final product costs also reflects the design and testing phase where they are trying to recoup their initial cost. I've been through all this myself so I know. However, there is no way in justifying $1100, thats just wacked.