1997 F250HD PSD Crew Cab. Alpine CDA7893 head unit. Calrion 5 1/4 in front, Pioneer TS-6870 in the back.

I have been to several car audio places and I really can't get a good answer as to what I can or should do. When I play the stereo, when I hit 23 or 24 on the volume, I start distorting. I have tried to fade to the back (larger 3-way speakers) and various other settings, but it ain't happening. Most of the time I have to turn the bass way down (sounds like someone banging sticks rather than good drums!).

So, what are my options? Should I go for a 4 channel amp or a 2 channel and just power the rear 3 way speakers? Should I replace all the wiring with heavy duty stuff? When you add an amp, does it add to the wattage put out by the head unit, or do you only get what is coming from the amp?

I don't want a ton of "bass". I just want a good sounding (somewhat loud) system that will play my heavy rock stuff.

I'm just looking to get on the right track here so if anyone that responds that needs more info, let me know.

Thanks!

 

Your speakers are too small to put out any substantial bass. You also are compounding the distortion by turning up the bass on your head unit. Upgrading the wiring and adding an external amp for the speakers won't really do much for you. You need to add a subwoofer powered by an external amp. By letting the sub handle the bass notes, you can turn down the bass going to your current speakers which will minimize the distortion you are getting from them now. The sub doesn't have to be a big one. Adding an external amp does not add to the power of the head unit. Go to www.crutchfield.com for more info. Since you are are self-proclaimed "dunce" with regards to car audio, I would let a shop put in the equipment. Good Luck.

 

Howdy, I was faced with the same dilemma.
I have a panasonic HU, jbl fronts, and boston rears.
They sounded like crap at high volumes.
I added a US Acoustics 4-channel amp. It'll get very loud without distortion with a HPF set at just below 100Hz.
I've also got a sub enclosure on the way to install a 10" sub in. I'll raise the crossover on the door speakers to closer to 150 Hz at that time, which should even allow them to play louder.

If you choose to add a sub, you'll either need to use bass blockers (caps) on the door speakers or an amp with crossover control.

 

Okay, Thanks for responding! I appreciate it. First, yes I'm somewhat of a dunce when dealing with the audio config, but I can install this stuff myself, I know that. Done it before.

Now, when we're talking bass, I don't want to go down the street and have people hear me "bumping"! That's pathetic and annoying. I just want a good crisp sound of drums without major distortion at higher volumes.

I think the 4 channel amp seems to be the best way to go here. My rear speakers are 3 ways and can handle some 200W. Fronts are 2 channel but I should be able to get the sound I want by adjusting the head unit. From what I understand, 3 way speakers give you the bass where 2 channel speakers don't produce bass as well.

I'll upgrade the wiring all the way through as well. That should help. Does this line of thinking sound correct?

BTW, don't tell audio people that you have a 1997 F250. I tell them that I have the diesel, the HD version, but everything they show is for the smaller version F250 light duty!

Thanks again for the help.

 

I completely agree with your opinion regarding bass bumpers! I find them annoying as heck. However, as I said before, a subwoofer does not have to be played that loud. I have a 10" sub driven by a 300W amp in my reg cab Ranger. The sub adds "warmth" and "body" to the overall sound which no small (5"x7") speaker could ever hope to do. Even when I have my system played fairly loud, I could barely hear any bass outside the truck. It's all about moderation. I prefer a balanced sound: quality over quantity. Those people you hear "bumping" probably have multiple subs driven by >1000 watts of power playing at full volume.

Powering your current speakers with an external 4 channel amp will improve the clarity and dynamics of your system, but not to the degree that I think will satisfy you. My recommendation would be to get a sub and amp and use your head unit to power the speakers you have now. Of course, the best thing is to do both (i.e. sub, sub amp, 4 channel amp for door speakers).

Upgrading the wires, while a good practice, will have an almost inaudible effect. The factory wires are around 18 gauge and can already carry a sufficient amount of current. Also, consider sound dampening the doors with something like Dynamat (www.dynamat.com). This will significantly cut down on background noise and make your system easier to hear, and therefore louder sounding.

For reference, here is my sound system (I installed everything myself):

Alpine CDA-9835 head unit...MTX Thunder 342 and 2150x amps...JL Audio XR525-CSi 5.25" component speakers...Image Dynamics IDQ-10v.2 10" sub in MTX Thunderform enclosure...StreetWires cables and wires...upgraded ground cables...Dynamat Xtreme on doors and interior panel

 

People sometimes have a tendency to think that an aftermarket HU and aftermarket speakers automatically add up to a tremendous jump in performance over the stock system, and that is very rarely the case. The fact that someone goes to the extent to change all this equipment shows that they are wanting to see some results in the form of more loudness, clarity, etc. You will not get loud AND clean with your current set-up. It all depends on what a person is used to, I guess, but not what I would consider loud and clean. It has to do with the capabilities of the equipment. Cheap aftermarket 2-way or 3-way speakers are notorious for the problems you describe, especially when teamed up with a HU. A HU is a weak link when it comes to using it as your system's only amplification, especially if you are concerned about loud and clean. A HU amp simply is NOT well suited for this kind of performance. If it was, we would have very little need for true high quality separate amps. But they are, in fact, very different. And people are very gullible when it comes to HU power ratings. They are grossly overrated. You constantly hear people discussing their 50 or 60 watt HUs, when that is complete nonsense. A HU is good for nothing more than very average listening levels. If you are wanting loud and clean, it may be time to upgrade. No disrepect intended, just my opinions based on many years of experience.

 

Okay, so what you're saying is do not rely on the HU being the focal point of the audio system? Correct?

I bought my diesel last November and this is what came in it. Obviously the previous owner put in the Alpine HU.

As for the speakers, I wouldn't say they are "cheap aftermarket" speakers. From the research I have done, they are recommended for my truck. What would you call quality aftermarket speakers? I just bought the Pioneer 6X8 to replace the Polk 5x7's in the back.

I understand your comments about amplification, but given my scenario, what would be your recommendation?

Thanks again for all the repsonses. As the discussion grows I see there may be some slight variances in opinion as to what acceptable volume levels and quality are.

Next we'll get into music selection as a factor! Ha, Ha!

Thanks again!

 

Voodoo, How you would configure a system depends on what you want the end result to be. The importance of audio is different to each one of us. As an example, some people are perfectly happy with a stock system, and they honestly feel that it "sounds good". That is their perspective. They may feel that way because of little interest in the whole audio scene. Or they may feel that way based on experience and what they have been exposed to. So you need to decide what you want from a system and go from there. Being that I'm nearly 50 years old with many years of audio listening pleasure, I have a different outlook on things than a young guy would, for instance. Again I meant no disrespect, but the type of speakers that you have, combined with the HU as the sole amplification, lends itself to the results you are getting. As I stated, this system would be great for low to medium volume, non critical listening. The speakers are capable of nothing more than mid bass, and if pushed hard with the HU(which is a very nice HU, by the way) will probably sound very harsh on the high end, also. The "drop-in for convenience" types of speakers with their poor crossovers are very low on the list in terms of quality compared to what else is available in the world of car audio. That's what I meant by "cheap". Now, having said all that, those same speakers will sound a great deal better with a reasonably good amp combined with a small subwoofer to give a balanced system. I have a 5 channel Hifonics amp that is only 50x4 and 200x1 on the sub. It would be perfect for what you want. I have a very nice 5 1/4 component set up front running on the bridged front channels of the amp, and an MTX Thunderform with two 8s on the sub channel. It's very loud and clean with the proper balance of bass to suit my tastes. I got the amp brand new for less than $200 on ebay. With all other wiring, cables, speakers, etc., I have less than $1000 invested. I removed the interior of my truck, took my time, didn't cut any corners, installed everything correctly(spent about 15 hours), and haven't had one second of downtime in almost 2 years. I've seen dozens and dozens of systems over the years that are "botched" by impatience and corner cutting, and they are constantly causing trouble. I would highly recommend not being like that. Better to have mediocre gear installed correctly, than to have high end gear installed like Homer Simpson did it. High end stuff can sound lousy in the right hands. Sorry to ramble. Good Luck!!

 

My suggestion is to get an amp with a built in variable high pass crossover and set it to about 150 hertz and set the low pass crossover on the sub amp to about 80 or lower! i have a seperate passive linear power crossover and an older alpine amp that i have my 5 1/4's and my tweeters hooked to. I have a pioneer amp running an alpine type s 10 that has a crossover built into it and it also has rca level outputs that are filtered by the internal crossover so that the signal that goes on to the linear power crossover is already filtered from signals below 60 hertz. i have the linear power crossover set at 150 hertz and with the slope of the crossovers the gap between the 60 hertz and 150 hertz is really still coverd just not as obvious as if i had both set at the same thing so. All that being said get a crossover for the smaller speakers and there will be very little distortion because the front speakers are not trying to produce the bass that the sub is taking care of.

jason
77 f100 long bed

 

Well, I think that post just lost me there! Please do not take offense in any way, I would never intend that, but that made no sense whatsoever.

Okay, at this point, it's time to hit the web and start researching all these terms you guys are throwing around. What the H*** is a crossover? What's all this Hertz stuff? Obviously these are things I need to know before I go any further.

I am starting to get some of the thinking here, but I also have to make choices, and sacrafices. First, not putting subwoofers in, period. No where to put them! Unless you guys know where to put them in a full size crew cab truck....?

On a side note, for everyone who has responded so far, what have you shelled out for your car audio systems? Sounds to me like I'd need a second job just to get started.

 

Okay i'm sorry about that but to explain it simply the sound coming from the speakers is the hertz and the lower the number the lower the tone so that around 120 hertz is the bass drum and bass synthesizers stuff and upto around 5000 or so is the majority of the musical instruments and the singers voice, and above that to i think around 22,000 hertz is the the cymbols and high notes like for the tweeters. And a crossover will allow you to seperate all of this at a certain point or hertz. so that is why i said crossover the sub at 80 or below and the front speakers at 150 hertz or so because anything much lower than that and the smaller speaker is trying to produce a bass note that is distorting the other music coming through the speaker so if you block the lower frequencies from reaching the speaker all you get is the higher frequencies thus less distortion from the speaker jumping around trying to produce low bass it was not designed for. i hope this clears it up a little i'm sorry i didn't explain my self the first time. i hope this helps. as for a sub you should have no problem putting one behind the seat even if it is a 10 inch sub they only take up about 1 cubic feet of air space so the box is pretty small. run that 10 on about 120 watt amp and you should get some good low end to your music.

And as far as how much i spent on my system i have a panasonic HU 325.00 linear power crossover 150.00 alpine amp 150.00 pioneer amp 210.00 alpine sub 55.00 from the pawn shop(GREAT DEAL). so i have spent $890.00 not bad for how good it sounds. even with the one 10 you can hear me coming a block away. i love it!!!!!

jason
77 f 100
the stereo is in my 99 isuzu rodeo though

 

Check out this website...
http://www.bcae1.com/installationprimer.htm
I consider it the online "bible" for car audio. It is well written and highly informative. However, it can be a little technical in areas. Keep in mind that installing a new system is only part of the work. You must understand the fundamental concepts (e.g. crossover freq, hertz, etc.) in order to properly "dial in" your system to get the most out of it. You can also look through the message boards at http://forum.sounddomain.com/ for good info. Crutchfield also has a good beginner's guide to car audio on their website.

I have a regular cab Ranger and I was able to fit in a 10" sub. Therefore, considering your interior is probably over twice the size of mine, there should be room to install a decent sized sub somewhere. A good candidate would be underneath your rear seats. As a start, look through here for a good selection of subs which may work for you...
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-sTdsmGx...&avf=Y&search=

I spent around $1800 for my system and did all the installation myself. I bought the head unit, comp speakers, and Dynamat on eBay at a significant savings. The time and money I put into it was well worth it for me. I am very satisfied and proud at how good it sounds. You can see some pics of my install here...

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/621380/3

Alpine CDA-9835 head unit...MTX Thunder 342 and 2150x amps...JL Audio XR525-CSi 5.25" component speakers...Image Dynamics IDQ-10v.2 10" sub in MTX Thunderform enclosure...StreetWires cables and wires...upgraded ground cables...Dynamat Xtreme on doors and interior panel

 

Wow! Thanks for the link (first one)! That helped a lot! Still reading and need to read it again to digest all the info.

Just wanted to say thanks!

 

Make sure to go to the site's homepage at

http://www.bcae1.com/

Along the right hand column, he goes into specific aspects related to car audio, from what an electron is, to making your own fiberglass enclosures.

 

Here is a good chart I've found which shows the specific frequencies of various instruments...

http://www.bcpl.net/~musicman/freqchrt.htm