Sorry. I meant all that gas might have washed down the cylinders, and without the compression, you need starting fluid for a quick fire. If there was that much gas in the oil, you might have washed all the oil off the bearings and done some damage.

 

ya, I think that's what happened, but I didn't understand what kwikford was talking about when he said to spray starting fluid into the throttle body. How do I do this??? Sorry for the dumb questions, I'm new to fuel problems.

 

well when you spray starting fluid into the throttle body. and then crank it, its suppose to start your engine even if it has no fuel, and you do this by just opening up the throttle, and spraying into the upper plentum or upper intake, and then you crank it, while having the throttle full open, and it should start, but if it doesnt start, you have to start from the begging.

One more thing, is to take it to your closest auto shop, and them help you out.

But first try the starting fluid

 

did it work or what

 

I'm not going to use starter fluid yet, because I have too much extra fuel around and not much oil in the cylinder. I'm going to try and lub up the pistons and start it normally. I'll let you know

 

Ok, here's the new news. I ventilated the cylinders, put the plugs back in and tried starting the engine. it was firing but wouldn't start. I disconnected the fuel pump relay and tried her again and she started right up. I thought I had some excess fuel in there because I was getting alot of smoke from the exhaust. So I let her run until she died. Then I reconnected the relay and tried it again. She wouldn't start. Then, I took the relay out again and it started right up. While it's running, if I reconnect the relay then it runs fine, but for some strange reason it won't start if the relay is connected. What could be causing this.

It seems like the injectors aren't opening when I try to start it with the pump on. But as soon as I disconnector the relay it fires right up and runs fine after I connect it back up. I'm thinking that this might be an electrical problem. Any Ideas?????

 

kk this mind sound a little stupid, but dont use the relay, but a piece of wire, and jump it from negative to positive, and try it that way. And if it fires up then its a bad relay, and if it still doesnt fire up, check all your wires again, to make shure there not touching. Another thing is try to hear your fuel pump turn on, and if it doesnt, then it might be a bad fuel pump. One more thing, is if you are using starting fluid to start your truck, and it is firing up, but then dies down, it means a fuel problem, and if it fires up, and then slowly dies down, it could be a vacuum problem.

O and im just trying to help, soo sorry if none of my ideas are helping.

 

The relay seems to be working, because it is energizing the fuel pump. The pump is also working because it is pressurizing the fuel rail. I am not using starter fluid. The truck starts fine when the relay is disconnected and runs perfectly once I put the relay back in. I think it may be an electrical problem between the pcm and the injectors. What do you guys think??

 

you're on the money.

relay have nothing to do with injectors.

I'm suspecting stuck open injectors which cause to dump excessive fuel.

If I were you I would stop immediately before you loses any more $$$.

you need to scan for codes to determine any faults codes. you'll need to borrow a scanner or have a knowledgeable friend to check out your EFI system.

by the way....please check the black wire that goes from harness to negative battery cable or post. That's your PCM ground. make sure the wires are not corroded, broken or whatever.

Like I said before and I'll said it again...."Don't assume it, just check it!"

 

I don't believe the injectors are stuck open because it runs normally after I get it started. The only problem is getting it started. So far, she will only fire up if the fuel pump is disconnected, then before it dies, if I reconnect the pump she continues to run and drive normally. At this point, I think it must be an electrical problem. I'm going to keep on going, simply because I haven't spent much money. I've returned all the parts that didn't fix the problem and so far, I've dropped only 30 bucks on a pressure regulator and many frustrating man hours. The PCM ground seems to be a good one. I don't believe the problem is with the ground. After going through the schematics, I believe I may have a burnt out fuse link.

When you start my truck, the starter will draw 7-8 amps, the PCM also requires about the same amperage. If my fuse link had previously heated up too high and partially burnt itself up then it won't be able to supply enough amps to power both the ignition system and the PCM. I have no proof of this, but it's the only thing that I can think of. If the PCM wasn't getting the proper amps it would not be able to tell the injectors when to pulse. I believe this is the case because the PCM appears to be working properly except for the initial start. If I had a PCM fault, then removing the fuel pump relay would not affect the start-up....but it does. I don't believe the injectors are getting a signal from the PCM at start-up because of a problem further back in the sequence. I believe that problem may be the fuse link, because both the starter and the starter selonoid are functioning properly.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this ??? (also, I do not believe running the codes will show anything, unless there is a fault in the pcm or fuel delivery system)

 

You know, theres really no harm in trying something that could work. Because really maybee that kwik kid is right, cause he seems pretty smart. Soo Run the codes just in case, and dont assume something is good until you go through and check it. And sorry im out of ideas, but try to check the fuses. Maybee that will help.

 

You didn't tell us that. You kept saying no start and flooded engine.

FYI..Injectors can be mechanically stuck open! When you remove the F.P. relay, no more fuel will be submit. Engine will runs when there's available fuel left inside the engine.




There's your problem. You just assume and refuse to believe.
Always double check every electrical connections and clean them real good while you're at!
FYI.......Injectors fires when the PCM supplies the ground!

There's your other problem. You assume it again!
any good Tech will tell you that scanning the PCM for any codes can tell you something and can be easily pinpoint the problem.

FYI..PCM does not draw more than 2 amps . PCM gets it's pwer from EEC relay not the F.P relay

here's thing for you to check.

PCM pin # 40 and #60 goes to negative battery cable or post. They must be in excellent shape and clean. They're also part of injector ground!

PCM Pin #20 is case ground.

PCM pin # 37 and #57 is 12 volt power.

and check for 12 volt power to injectors. [ red wire] if no 12 volt power then trace the wire to PCM relay.

I doubt you got problem with pin #1 and #20 and #37 and #57 and 12 volt power to injectors.

if all above pins check out good, then couple things left.

mechanically stuck open injectors.
any one of the sensors isn't working properly.
clogged cat converter???????????????? [ it is possible since I only go by what you said! ]
defective PCM due to cold start strategy mode?

 

Kwikford, awesome tips!!! sorry if I didn't reply with all the info. I'm not just assuming things, but rather, I'm going off of logical evidence. I do not think the injectors are mechanically stuck open, because after the truck is started and I put the relay back in, it in running normally. I have no evidence that it is burning rich and find it hard to believe that all 8 injectors would get stuck open at the same time. Are there any simple tests that I can do to make sure??

I've checked the PCM grounds and they are good. Your comment on the EEC is where I made my mistake. I must have traced the schematics wrong, because I believed that the Number one pin was power. I will double check on the grounds and do voltage checks on the other pins. I really appreciate your help Kwikford. I am sorry if I'm assuming things. I've been frustrated and have never tackled a problem like this before. I will check all thost connections and pins and see if I can get a code reader. I will post my results hopefully this weekend. Again, thanks for the help and your patience

 

kwikford, what about the TFI module. I heard that if it was bad, this kind of problem may occur

 

Ok, I've been working on my truck all day and here's some new information.

1. I still think the problem is electrical because it is intermittent. The truck started up just fine 4 or 5 times in a row, then it would just crank and crank but not fire. Everytime I remove the fuel pump relay, it starts and continues to run if I put the relay back in. I have no idea why removing the fuel pump relay would allow the truck to fire. I've checked all the pcm grounds, as well as the grounds for the fuel pump and the grounds for the sensors. They are all good.

2. I've measured the voltage all the injectors and they are also good. So once again, I'm back at the same delima. I know I have good compression, but that cannot be intermittent. So I'm either not getting spark or not getting fuel. However, the fuel pump is ALWAYS pressurizing the system, and by testing the voltages dozens of times on the relay, it too is working fine. I've been continually testing for spark, and even when the truck won't start, I continue to have good spark.

3. Pin 40 and pin 60 on the pcm are both grounded properly. The PCM in general seems to be working fine because it consistanly lowers the voltage on the relay, so I know that the PCM is getting power at all times.

As far as the other tips go....I don't see how the injectors could be stuck open, because once again this is an intermittent problem and removing the fuel pump relay would not cause the injectors to start working properly. The fuel pressure will lower once the pump is inactive, but stuck open injectors wouldn't explain why the truck runs normally once the relay is put back in after start-up. I've checked the ECT sensor, MAP sensor, TPS sensor and O2 sensor, they all check out. As far as the cat. converter goes, I can't see a relationship between it and the fuel pump relay. If the converter was clogged then why would removing the relay cause the engine to start.

I know that one thing is true. Every time I pull out the relay, the truck starts up fine, and continues to run if I replug it back in. Therefore, I still think that this is an electrical problem and the problem lies somewhere between the wires in the relay and the rest of the ignition system.

I'm pulling my hair out with this problem and anymore tips would be appreciated. Somebody please tell me if I'm way off course here.