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Flashing 4WD lights, rough shifting, no power windows, etc.

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Old Jul 8, 2004 | 09:34 PM
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Question Flashing 4WD lights, rough shifting, no power windows, etc.

I've ben having a few assorted problems with my 1996 Explorer for a little while now.

The first problem I noticed was that it started shifting a little late, and when it does shift it shifts rather roughly - best way I can think to explain it is the vehicle lurches or jerks when it shifts. The problem has not gotten any worse since it first started, nor has it gotten better. Also at the same time this started, when the vehicle is first started after having been off for a long period of time (typically overnight) and put into gear it goes into gear and causes a significant jerk in the vehicle - shifting into Reverse causes the worst jerk, Drive is still noticeable although not as bad, and Neutral doesn't cause a jerk at all. This jerking continues for several minutes any time you shift into Drive or Reverse, gradually getting less and less until it reaches the normal lurching that is now experienced every time it shifts gears.

A week or two after that problem started, the power windows suddenly quit working and the 4WD and 4WD LO lights started flashing on the dashboard. They flash 6 times every 2 minutes on a constant basis whenever the vehicle is on. When this problem first started I discovered that one of the fuses had blown - number 27 I believe. I replaced it and the windows started working and the 4WD lights stopped flashing - for about 10-15 minutes when the problems started again and I discovered that the fuse had blown again. I realized the problem was somewhere else, so not wanting to take any chances I left the fuse out. After doing some searching online I found a few people that had the same exact problem which was fixed by replacing the accessory delay relay located under the dash above the gas pedal. I purchased a new relay from NAPA, popped the fuse back in, and it started working again. Fuse blew again 20 minutes later. After doing some more searching I'm seeing that the problem might be a bad vehicle speed sensor - either the front one or the back one.

I've also been seeing that a bad vehicle speed sensor can be responsible for many different problems, including the flashing 4WD lights, an erratic speedometer, ABS problems, Overdrive problems, shifting problems, etc.

I'm starting to wonder now if perhaps both problems are related to a bad speed sensor. If anybody out there has experience with these, do you think it is possible/probable that a bad sensor could be responsible for both sets of problems?

Also, anyone know which one is more likely to be bad - the front one or the rear one? Or have any tips on replacing them? All the information I've found online is rather sketchy when it comes to the details of actually replacing the sensors.

Thanks in advance for any ideas or info you can provide me with.
 
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Old Jul 9, 2004 | 12:11 PM
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First of al, do you have a wiring diagram? I dont know if yours is wired the same as a 97, but if it is fuse 27 splices to a couple different components including the interior lamp relay. If this was mine I'd try removing that relay & see if a new fuse still blows.
 
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Old Jul 9, 2004 | 12:22 PM
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I just obtained a couple of wiring diagrams from AutoZone's site that claim to be for the 1996 Explorers. I haven't had a chance to look them over yet to see if they are accurate, but if they are then I'll check that out. Thanks for the idea!

Oh, wait, my brain must have been off-track when I first read your post. The interior lamp relay. Yes, well, I neglected to mention that the interior lights are also on fuse 27 and they stopped working when the windows and 4WD lights started acting up.

My owners manual says fuse 27 is for:
Under hood lamp
Map lights
Glove box lamp
Dome lamp
Visor lamps
Accessory delay
Dimmer switch illum.
4x4 system

I'm still at a loss to understand why they put the 4x4 system on the same fuse as all of the interior lights - but that's a totally different issue.

Looks like the relay for the interior lamps is in the body compartment somewhere according to my manual. The arrow is pointing to the rear of the vehicle above the left rear wheel well. Anyone know exactly where I could find this at? I haven't looked at all yet - it might be easy to find for all I know - but if anyone knows exactly where it is that might save me some hunting time.
 
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Old Jul 9, 2004 | 12:42 PM
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Sounds like the location of "auxiliary relay box number 4" is the same on a 97& it's above the rear wiper washer motor. From other posts that i've seen the tire jack can tear up the wiring if not carefully replaced. Theres 4 relays there: Interior lamp/door lock & unlock & on some vehicles drivers door only unlock. I agree, it seems silly to put the interior lights & transfer case relay on the same fuse.
 

Last edited by 87 XLT; Jul 9, 2004 at 12:46 PM.
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Old Jul 9, 2004 | 01:03 PM
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Alright, maybe I'll try replacing that relay and see if that helps any.

The wiring diagrams I got from AutoZone's site appear to be accurate - but they aren't close to being complete. They cover the main engine controls and some of the body (such as exterior lights, etc.), but very few, if any, interior components are included. Fuse 27 is not mentioned anywhere. So I guess I should break down and go buy the repair manual for $15.

Anyone have any opinions in which is better - Haynes or Chilton? AutoZone sells the Haynes manuals, and I belive Napa sells both the Haynes and the Chilton Total Car Care manuals.

Also, in case the interior light relay is not the problem, I'm still interested in the vehicle speed sensor. If anyone is familiar with removing/replacing those I'd appreciate hearing from you.
 
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Old Jul 9, 2004 | 01:13 PM
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The best wiring diagrams are from Ford. Go to www.helminc.com & check out the "Electrical & vacuum troubleshooting manual" A bad VSS should set a trouble code, might want to have Autozone check for any trouble codes.
 
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Old Jul 10, 2004 | 12:02 AM
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Good news - I found the relay box back by the rear wiper fluid container.
Bad news - I don't think that the interior light relay is causing any problems.

I pulled the relay out and noticed that it was the same kind as the ones I replaced for my wipers a week or two ago. So I pulled one of the wiper relays and put the interior light relay in its place. Before I replaced my wiper relays the wipers would only work on Hi. I had to replace both wiper relays to get them to work in Hi, Lo, and Intermitent. So I figured if the relay was bad then my wipers should start acting up again when I put the interior light relay in where the wiper relay goes. But it didn't work that way - the wipers still worked perfectly fine. So my assumption is that the relay is fine. Does that sound correct to you? Or would a bad relay only be bad at certain times but be fine other times?
 
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Old Jul 10, 2004 | 12:24 AM
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Remove the relay & replace the fuse if it doesnt blow, the problem is a short somewhere in the interior lights.
 
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Old Jul 10, 2004 | 05:29 PM
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Sorry, I missed that suggestion from one of your previous posts! I tried that, and initial results point to the problem being in the interior lights. I pulled the relay this morning and put a fuse back in. I've driven it for about an hour to an hour-and-a-half total today and so far the fuse has not blown. Normally it will blow in 15-30 minutes after I put it in. So - I'll give it another day or so and if it still hasn't blown then I'll know for sure.

Oddly enough, I expected that the interior light relay was needed for all interior light operations, but apparently this isn't the case. The only thing that I've noticed not working since I pulled the relay is the lights automatically going on when one of the doors is opened. This no longer happens, but the interior lights work fine when they are turned on manually. Glove box light works as well when the glove box is opened. I haven't checked the underhood light but I suspect that will be working as well.

Now comes the fun task of trying to figure out exactly where this short is at in the vehicle....
 
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Old Jul 11, 2004 | 02:14 AM
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Good job, sounds like you are making some serious progress. I think that you have isolated the problem to the wire that feeds the "central timer/generic electronic module" On a 97 thats the light green/orange wire from the coil side of the interior lamp relay. So the GEM might be shorted out or something it feeds voltage to could be shorted out???? Isn't modern electronics fun?
BTW, the reason some interior lights are still working is that some of them are wired directly to fuse 27 & some are wired thru the interior lamp relay OR the dimmer/domelight switch. The ones that are not working now can still be turned on by the dimmer/dome light switch. I hope you have a good wiring diagram & keep us posted.
I wish I knew more about these idiot GEM modules, I can see how the GEM provides voltage to different items, but in this case it needs to provide a ground to the interor lamp relay, & I dont see where the ground comes from when I look at the GEM wiring diagram. Maybe one of the other guys can explain this. But I think the GEM is your problem. Unfortunately they are 2 or 3 hundred bucks so more info is needed b-4 spending that kind of money. Maybe you could remove the GEM & have a dealer or auto electric shop test it for you??
 

Last edited by 87 XLT; Jul 11, 2004 at 03:11 AM.
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Old Jul 12, 2004 | 10:56 AM
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I spoke too soon. :-( The fuse blew again yesterday. So, I guess I'm back to square one now.

Still don't have a good wiring diagram either. And as inexpensive as it is, I still probably won't have the money to obtain one for another week or two. :-(

Ah, well, life goes marching on...

If I ever get anywhere with this I'll repost.
 
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Old Jul 12, 2004 | 11:00 AM
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Oh, and I did have AutoZone pull the codes. There were two of them and neither are related to the VSS. One was for the EGR system (P0401 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation Flow Insufficient Detected) and the other was related to catalyst efficiency (P0421 - Warm Up Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1) ).
 
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Old Jul 13, 2004 | 12:26 AM
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On the bright side, at least it's not the high buck GEM module causing the short. With the interior lamp relay removed the 2 map lamps/compass-outside air temp module/under hood lamp/glove box lamp & dimmer module are still in the circuit. Seems like one of them has an intermitant short. Not sure how you are going to find it, since it's so intermitant.
On the codes you might just need to clean the EGR and hopefully that will solve both codes. Good luck with it.
 
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Old Aug 2, 2004 | 05:07 PM
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Jessman,

Finally, someone who has the same exact problems that I am having with my 96 XLT. I have taken it to a few shops who can't find anything wrong with it, or fix the windows but that only lasts for a few weeks. I have the same 4wd blinking lights as you, but my windows seem to actually work sometimes, just definately not when the 4wd lights flash. I've never had to actually reset the fuse, which would lead me to believe that they are automatically reset or we have different problems, but I would love to hear if you have made any progress, since I really haven't at all.

-Will
 
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Old Jan 13, 2005 | 01:38 PM
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mook21, sorry for the extremely delayed reply...I didn't see your post back when you posted it. To answer your question, no I still have not figured out the problem.
 
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