No, I am as white as the driven snow. But, see, this is the new, nicer CWB. I don't want to get banned for life. Besides arguing on the net is like being in the special olympics.......................................... .................................................. .......................Just because I do it doesn't mean I can't tell you not to. Besides, I don't argue, I state my opinion, perhaps in a less than discreet manner, and let everyone live with it, like it or not.

 

CWB, you're killing me, man.

 

i bet my truck can out wheel your truck!

-cutts-

 

camo, You have taken everything and twisted into your own liking, now pay close attention to what I'm writing as it is not complicated. They DO, yes, DO log in the Sierras!!! YES, LIKE I SAID selective logging DOES HELP PREVENT FIRES!!

Your reading your own interpetation into these posts, I simply said that there is "no lack of logging", and with the removal of both selective and clear cuts, there is NOT any problems with saplings and overgrowth attributing to major forest fires in the majority of the Sierras. Saying they dont log enough in the Sierras could only be stated by a blind man.

I have a home in the Sierras and am well aware of the logging practices there,and I'm sorry about your lack of understanding and current knowldege regarding the forests here, I hope this helps you out a bit.

 

Okay, we just need to drop this guys. I know we screw around in here but this is SUPPOSED to be for tech, not politics. I despise eco-***** as much as the next wheeler, but they don't tolerate political debates in here. I think thats why the original tree hugger thread got axed and of course, its why the "pig pen" forum was shut down. So while I enjoy an intellectual arguement as much as the next guy, take it to private email so we can keep the mods of our backs. Thanks. Besides...

 

i wish i could delete this

 

Yeah a mud slide does release more soot, but that doesn't happen every day 10 hours a day, for months (at least) at a time. Yeah I ride an ATV and I like to off-road, but guess what. I do it on my families ranch. If you don't think lots of vehicles going thru streams won't have an effect-your just wrong. Also I'm related to some of the land owners they are talking about-they aren't "tree huggers". If you had thousands done in damage to your property you'd be behind this too. there are people just as bad on the opposite spectrum of the "tree hugger", you'll find they use terms like "tree hugger". Also not all logging is private lands as I am sure your aware. Clear cutting to prevent fires is like shooting you in the head to keep you from getting cancer.

I know most off roaders are there too have fun and do as little damage as possible. I don't think it should be outlawed. However I wouldn't mind seeing (and this is one of the few times I'm for more regulations on anything) less people allowed at a given time. I enjoy spending time in nature and it's hard to feel like your "away" when you can't hear the buzz of insects over the buzz of ATV, moto., and glass packed 4x4's all around. We notice more and more every year (and less and less wild life) and the damage is definatly noticeable.

edit: I realize logging is neccessary and it has gotten better, but there's room for improvement. There are also much better alternatives to wood for housing, but that's not what this thread is about.

 

Guys - I went to vote and the site bombed with trillions of **** pages - talking about panic!! It even got into my IE settings and changed them - crept into MY Favorites and got embedded.

Don't click on the link just yet!!!!!!!!

 

Good post tdister, I think its hard for people to understand, unless they themselves own land in a remote area in the mountains. To label someone trying to protect what they themselves own as "treehuggers" just shows further ignorance as to the problems we face in the forests. Our home is located at 5000 ft elevation in the Sierra Nevadas. We are deep in the mountains, 25 miles from the nearest town. We are completly off the grid, no electric, water, sewer, mail or other services. We have to provide for ourselves, which is fine with me. The framing and deck around our house was all cut on a local portable mill from cedar and fir found in the surrounding areas. We are 16 miles from a "snow gate", that is roads that dont get plowed all winter, the logging companies close the gate in the fall when they are done logging and only the land owners can get in, in the winter time. 12 of the 16 miles to get into our place is on dirt roads. What I'm leading to here is that they let people use these roads and this land the majority of the year for recreational purposes. There are areas that are clearly marked "no trespassing and No Camping and No Fires". You wouldent believe how much work it is to have to continuoiusly enforce these rules and the rude people that think they have the right to do whatever they please. We find people every holiday camping with a fire right under the no camping and no fires signs. There are the quad guys going off trail, through pristine creeks, leaving trash behind, having to be asked to leave clearly posted private land, etc. There are the dirt bikers that think its OK to rip up everything including the fire trails, ruining them by creating huge ruts that turn into gullies with the storms. Well, unfortunetly for those that abuse and dont want to follow the rules, thats all about to change. We as land owners in this area in conjunction with the National Forest Service and Sierra Pacific Industries Logging company will be installing many new gates in the area, locking and shutting people out of thousands and thousands of acres that everyone was previously able to enjoy for recreation because of the abuse of a few. Its very unfortunate that there are a few people out there that think they can and should be able to do whatever they please and not have to follow any rules, your not allowed to do that on the highways now are you? I'm not certain why ther are guys that think theres no rules once theyre in the dirt, or the rules dont matter anymore? And then the assumtion that if someone locks them out they're whacko evironmentalists, thats pretty funny too, because in this case, the logging company is the biggest supporter! They stand to loose millions of dollars worth of timber to fire, and not from what some here have tried to say is due to "not allowing logging", get real! I dont agree with all of the logging practices that are performed. There is definialtly room for improvement, clearcutting really, really destroys alot of land, buts thats a whole different issue. The bottom line guys is that its up to all of us to police ourselves AND those we see doing something wrong or going somewhere they shouldent because in the end, if we dont there wil be more and more closeures, thats a fact. I wheel all the time and like being able to do so but I like most follow the rules, so lets all tread lightly and follow the rules if we want to keep our forests open.

 

This is what I'm talking about in my above post, this attitude is what causes closures of land!

Theres rules everwhere, sorry!

 

what are you talking about?!

 

You didn't get bombed?

I'm being bombed with **** after I clicked on the "vote" link.

Anybody else?

I'm still trying to get this junk off here.

 

And that's a bad thing? I think I'm going to go vote again!

It's really sad but I think the restrictions on trails are only going to get worse due to abuse and stupidity (of both wheelers and tree huggers). How many times do you go out on a trail and see it trashed from wheelers? Yeah, hikers leave a lot of junk too but nobody is going to stop them. We're big and loud and obvious so we're an easy target.

 

every single time I am out on the trail whether it be a local spot or Tellico I bring a trash bag and make it a point to pick up the trash i see! Not to mention I have been to a couple of clean-up weekends at Tellico and WITC

-cutts-

 

"We're big and loud and obvious so we're an easy target."

No, it's because your 10% of the visitors, yet you do most of the damage. The issue is about destroying habitats needlessly. It's not only "tree huggers" that are for this, it's hunters, fisherman, and families that have been going to these places for decades(generations) watching the destruction that happens. Just because Green Peace (or one of the other 65 orgs)supports it doesn't automatically make it a bad idea (though they do have a bunch of 'em ). Litter while bad is the least of the problem. I would eventually like to see 2 stroke vehicles completely phased out of these areas. This is extreme, but even Park Rangers are behind this one. Most of the ideas put into "suggestion boxes" at the parks are complaining about these vehicles, so I've been told/read about. It's not about "easy targets" it's the only target. I'm wondering if any of the people against this actually go to these places or not.