Data Recorders in Our Trucks?
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2004
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From: stoneboro, pa
the abs module doesnt actually see speed, so neither does the RCM. it "see's" pulses/sec of the tonerings. it just counts how many. the HECM(dash) then converts it, but its conversion table doesnt go passed whatever 100mph equals in pulses/sec. so, the RCM see's the pulses/sec at the time of the accident, no matter how high
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At a recent Society of Automotive Engineers conference at the NTSB Academy, Ford announced the 2004 Explorer and F150 have crash data recorders on board. The recorder is part of the electronic throttle control and not part of the air bag control module as on other Ford models.
http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/cdrlist.pdf
From the web site with the complete vehicle listing:
"The following Ford vehicles have the capability to store a data record within the Electronic Throttle Control. The data record is "locked" when the air bags deploy. The record can include vehicle speed, accelerator pedal %, brake pedal %, brake switch status, throttle position %, engine speed (RPM), transmission status, speed control status and deployment of safety devices.
The amount of time recorded varies between system models but the minimum time recorded is 20 seconds before air bag deployment and 5 seconds after deployment.
This data can only be retrieved by Ford engineers, not with the current Vetronix equipment or by Ford dealer service technicians.
http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/cdrlist.pdf
From the web site with the complete vehicle listing:
"The following Ford vehicles have the capability to store a data record within the Electronic Throttle Control. The data record is "locked" when the air bags deploy. The record can include vehicle speed, accelerator pedal %, brake pedal %, brake switch status, throttle position %, engine speed (RPM), transmission status, speed control status and deployment of safety devices.
The amount of time recorded varies between system models but the minimum time recorded is 20 seconds before air bag deployment and 5 seconds after deployment.
This data can only be retrieved by Ford engineers, not with the current Vetronix equipment or by Ford dealer service technicians.
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,359
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From: Dallas
Originally Posted by fromalongdistance
At a recent Society of Automotive Engineers conference at the NTSB Academy, Ford announced the 2004 Explorer and F150 have crash data recorders on board. The recorder is part of the electronic throttle control and not part of the air bag control module as on other Ford models.
http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/cdrlist.pdf
From the web site with the complete vehicle listing:
"The following Ford vehicles have the capability to store a data record within the Electronic Throttle Control. The data record is "locked" when the air bags deploy. The record can include vehicle speed, accelerator pedal %, brake pedal %, brake switch status, throttle position %, engine speed (RPM), transmission status, speed control status and deployment of safety devices.
The amount of time recorded varies between system models but the minimum time recorded is 20 seconds before air bag deployment and 5 seconds after deployment.
This data can only be retrieved by Ford engineers, not with the current Vetronix equipment or by Ford dealer service technicians.
http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/cdrlist.pdf
From the web site with the complete vehicle listing:
"The following Ford vehicles have the capability to store a data record within the Electronic Throttle Control. The data record is "locked" when the air bags deploy. The record can include vehicle speed, accelerator pedal %, brake pedal %, brake switch status, throttle position %, engine speed (RPM), transmission status, speed control status and deployment of safety devices.
The amount of time recorded varies between system models but the minimum time recorded is 20 seconds before air bag deployment and 5 seconds after deployment.
This data can only be retrieved by Ford engineers, not with the current Vetronix equipment or by Ford dealer service technicians.
Very informative post, thank you
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 161,999
Likes: 75
From: 3rd Rock
Originally Posted by fromalongdistance
At a recent Society of Automotive Engineers conference at the NTSB Academy, Ford announced the 2004 Explorer and F150 have crash data recorders on board. The recorder is part of the electronic throttle control and not part of the air bag control module as on other Ford models.
http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/cdrlist.pdf
From the web site with the complete vehicle listing:
"The following Ford vehicles have the capability to store a data record within the Electronic Throttle Control. The data record is "locked" when the air bags deploy. The record can include vehicle speed, accelerator pedal %, brake pedal %, brake switch status, throttle position %, engine speed (RPM), transmission status, speed control status and deployment of safety devices.
The amount of time recorded varies between system models but the minimum time recorded is 20 seconds before air bag deployment and 5 seconds after deployment.
This data can only be retrieved by Ford engineers, not with the current Vetronix equipment or by Ford dealer service technicians.
http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/cdrlist.pdf
From the web site with the complete vehicle listing:
"The following Ford vehicles have the capability to store a data record within the Electronic Throttle Control. The data record is "locked" when the air bags deploy. The record can include vehicle speed, accelerator pedal %, brake pedal %, brake switch status, throttle position %, engine speed (RPM), transmission status, speed control status and deployment of safety devices.
The amount of time recorded varies between system models but the minimum time recorded is 20 seconds before air bag deployment and 5 seconds after deployment.
This data can only be retrieved by Ford engineers, not with the current Vetronix equipment or by Ford dealer service technicians.
And WELCOME to FTE, hang out with us you will enjoy it
New User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: St Paul, MN
Originally Posted by fromalongdistance
At a recent Society of Automotive Engineers conference at the NTSB Academy, Ford announced the 2004 Explorer and F150 have crash data recorders on board. The recorder is part of the electronic throttle control and not part of the air bag control module as on other Ford models.
http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/cdrlist.pdf
From the web site with the complete vehicle listing:
"The following Ford vehicles have the capability to store a data record within the Electronic Throttle Control. The data record is "locked" when the air bags deploy. The record can include vehicle speed, accelerator pedal %, brake pedal %, brake switch status, throttle position %, engine speed (RPM), transmission status, speed control status and deployment of safety devices.
The amount of time recorded varies between system models but the minimum time recorded is 20 seconds before air bag deployment and 5 seconds after deployment.
This data can only be retrieved by Ford engineers, not with the current Vetronix equipment or by Ford dealer service technicians.
http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/cdrlist.pdf
From the web site with the complete vehicle listing:
"The following Ford vehicles have the capability to store a data record within the Electronic Throttle Control. The data record is "locked" when the air bags deploy. The record can include vehicle speed, accelerator pedal %, brake pedal %, brake switch status, throttle position %, engine speed (RPM), transmission status, speed control status and deployment of safety devices.
The amount of time recorded varies between system models but the minimum time recorded is 20 seconds before air bag deployment and 5 seconds after deployment.
This data can only be retrieved by Ford engineers, not with the current Vetronix equipment or by Ford dealer service technicians.
All other FORD models DO NOT record pre-crash data in the EDR at this time. I would expect more to come in the very near future
Only GM records pre-crash data, and that is only FIVE seconds in length.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1
From: Snohomish, Washington
Originally Posted by Choctaw Bob
In any event this could turn out bad for any of us. We need to know more about this....
Also, anything they can build, we can break.
Also, anything they can build, we can break.
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,414
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From: stoneboro, pa
[QUOTE=jasfaa. It sounds like Big Brother is watching after all.[/QUOTE]
it sounds like their blowin smoke up ur dress to me!!!
how they recording THE LIFE OF THE TRUCK!?!? thats a lot of memory,cuz the amount of stuff the pcm oversees is huge
it sounds like their blowin smoke up ur dress to me!!!
how they recording THE LIFE OF THE TRUCK!?!? thats a lot of memory,cuz the amount of stuff the pcm oversees is huge
Last edited by bighoss550; Jun 10, 2004 at 04:38 PM.
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Posting Guru
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,414
Likes: 0
From: stoneboro, pa
the GM at my dealer showed me a piece of literature on this stuff, and it showed a few cars were capable of SHORT TERM memory in a near accident or accident.
the only thing that our trucks have is the ability to record the parameters that triggered the restraints and the resulting effects. in case something malfuntioned, they could engineer a fix.
the only thing that our trucks have is the ability to record the parameters that triggered the restraints and the resulting effects. in case something malfuntioned, they could engineer a fix.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,417
Likes: 3
From: Durham, NC
One parameter that would be easy to store in the PCM is the MAX RPM that the engine has turned. All it takes is a register to store the MAX RPM, and every time the MAX RPM exceeds the previous MAX RPM, the register is updated. This register could be any kind of non-volatile
memory....
memory....
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1
From: Snohomish, Washington
[QUOTE=bighoss550]
I am just telling you what the Ford dealership stated. They call it the black box internally and they said it was separate from the main computer. I agree that is a lot of information to store on anything. Who knows what is actually grabbed though.
Originally Posted by jasfaa. It sounds like Big Brother is watching after all.[/QUOTE
it sounds like their blowin smoke up ur dress to me!!!
how they recording THE LIFE OF THE TRUCK!?!? thats a lot of memory,cuz the amount of stuff the pcm oversees is huge
how they recording THE LIFE OF THE TRUCK!?!? thats a lot of memory,cuz the amount of stuff the pcm oversees is huge
I am just telling you what the Ford dealership stated. They call it the black box internally and they said it was separate from the main computer. I agree that is a lot of information to store on anything. Who knows what is actually grabbed though.
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,414
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From: stoneboro, pa
there is a tech(if u could call him that) at the dealer i used to work at who would make up whatever the costomer wanted to hear, or didnt want to hear, to make himself sound like he knew what he was talkin about. he had NO clue 90% of the time. pathalogical liar. but he was no more than a grease tech.
i dont mean to aim anything at u, im just stating my wonderful experience w/ the BS that goes as fact at the dealer.
when he said yes to the -90mph two years ago- question, i wouldve smacked him and left.
but maybe im just bitter...
i dont mean to aim anything at u, im just stating my wonderful experience w/ the BS that goes as fact at the dealer.
when he said yes to the -90mph two years ago- question, i wouldve smacked him and left.
but maybe im just bitter...
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1
From: Snohomish, Washington
I have a diesel tech I usually verify everything with that is not at the dealership. I will verify with him next time I talk to him. As for the dealer, they have not lied before about anything and were very vague as to the information being recorded. I did ask if it was recorded when the airbags deployed and he said flat out no, it records all sorts of stats for the lifetime of the vehicle. Beyond that I do not know the frequency or the length of time it stays. I also questioned the performance issues, and he said they have data recorders they can add to the truck so you can hit a button to record 5 seconds before and 5 seconds after you hit the button so they can diagnose what is going on. I don't understand why the "Black Box" would not have this information already or if it just takes snapshots of your driving habits and maximums of your gauges.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,417
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From: Durham, NC
Originally Posted by jasfaa
I don't understand why the "Black Box" would not have this information already or if it just takes snapshots of your driving habits and maximums of your gauges.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,483
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From: Central Texas
Originally Posted by jasfaa
As requested I inquired about the black box in the trucks during my last visit to the dealer. Everything from MPH, gear you were in relation to rpm's, truck performance, is recorded for the life of the PCM. I asked them if I was doing 90 over the pass with high egt's two years ago would you be able to tell. They said yes. I also asked about the legal ramifications would be and first they said no that could not happen but then changed their tune. It would be very likely that if a fatalality accident occurred the police could take this information into court with a subpeona. It sounds like Big Brother is watching after all.
Here is what I got from one tech:
Currently, coverage is sporadic with most manufacturers having some models that record crash data. AFAIK, data is only save in two cases..... first and most obvious is an airbag deployment event. Second is in a non-deployment event that is sufficient to "wake up" the Restraints Control Module. The "snapshot" taken is of very short duration and no they can't tell if you visited Mabels bordello.
In the case of a non-deployment event, the data is saved for (IIRC) slightly over 100 key cycles after which it will be erased. In case of a deployment event, the data is non-erasable and there is an allowance for secondary impact recording that is also non-erasable.
I'm told that the data saved includes VSS, seatbelt usage, TPS and BPP. Currently, there are very few law enforcement agencies using this data and I have yet to hear of any insurance companies using this data regarding crash investigations.
In the case of a non-deployment event, the data is saved for (IIRC) slightly over 100 key cycles after which it will be erased. In case of a deployment event, the data is non-erasable and there is an allowance for secondary impact recording that is also non-erasable.
I'm told that the data saved includes VSS, seatbelt usage, TPS and BPP. Currently, there are very few law enforcement agencies using this data and I have yet to hear of any insurance companies using this data regarding crash investigations.
Go to: http://www.vetronix.com/diagnostics/cdr/faqs.html and read the FAQs. Interesting.
Looks like they are gathering crash related data. how fast were you going, were you WOT, on the brakes, etc.
As electronics get more compact, will they be able to store more data? Will the cost of building and installing the tattletail system save more in legal fees and payouts than the cost of implementing? Will the cost of a total monitoring system save more in warranty than the cost of implementing the system? As soon as the answer is yes, then you can expect it to show up.
On my '86 Bronco 5.0 EFI there were only a half dozen or so sensors on that system. The electronics on these new trucks are going to be nothing to what we will see in the near future.