2 Stroke Diesels
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2003
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I *think* they are still in production. GMC's 4-71 6-71 8-71... It has intake ports in the cylinder walls that the supercharger feeds. The valves in the head only vents the exhaust. This is as I recall but I'm too ignorant to be confident.
Senior User
Joined: May 2004
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From: Sudbury
Detroit Diesel is the biggest 2 stroke diesel maker. They don't make anymore cause of emissions. They where used into alot of things back in the day. They biggest market was for Forestry, and Underground mining. They where in lots of things, they are still used today alot. Detroit Diesel 53,71, and 92 Series
Last edited by Manitoulin; May 30, 2004 at 09:00 PM.
Post Fiend
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From: Lafayette, IN
The Pacifier
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Cloverdale, BC
Detroit Diesels were put into anything that moved. You name it. Locomotives, trucks, boats, and those beauty GM buses. Not just GM buses either. Flyer, Prevost, Brewster to name 3.
The US military was the biggest buyer of DD 2 strokes. I think they are still buying new 2 strokes. But for the rest of the market, we're stuck with the 4 stroke Series 50 and Series 60.
Anyway, some 2 strokes were small enough to stick into our pickups. One instructor at my trade school put a 2-53 into his International pickup. I've heard of people putting 6V53's into full size Bronco's. That would be about the biggest you could put in a truck. The 71 and 92 series were definitely WAY too big for a pickup. Those were truck and bus engines. Then there was a 149 (149 cubic inches per cylinder) used mostly in marine applications, but also for power generation. The larger ones called EMD (ElectroMotive Division of GM) were used in locomotives, also built by Detroit Diesel, back when DD was a division of GM.
The US military was the biggest buyer of DD 2 strokes. I think they are still buying new 2 strokes. But for the rest of the market, we're stuck with the 4 stroke Series 50 and Series 60.
Anyway, some 2 strokes were small enough to stick into our pickups. One instructor at my trade school put a 2-53 into his International pickup. I've heard of people putting 6V53's into full size Bronco's. That would be about the biggest you could put in a truck. The 71 and 92 series were definitely WAY too big for a pickup. Those were truck and bus engines. Then there was a 149 (149 cubic inches per cylinder) used mostly in marine applications, but also for power generation. The larger ones called EMD (ElectroMotive Division of GM) were used in locomotives, also built by Detroit Diesel, back when DD was a division of GM.
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There was some work being done on two stroke gas engines a few years ago. Toyota had a 4 litre I-6 with a supercharger and 4 valves per cylinder. I can't remember all the details, but it made big block power. Apparently too much air was pushed into the exhaust when the supercharger pumped the intake air in and the cat's couldn't deal with it, so it probably is on the shelf somewhere. This and other motors discussed in the article had conventional crankcases, so no oil mix like your Yamaha. I would guess we will see those again, as with high pressure direct injection, either a gas or oil-burner could be cleaned up enough to make it to market, if they can figure out all the other problems.
As for the DD, they used to be called "Jimmy Diesels" because they were a GMC engine, in their trucks, along with all the other stuff that was mentioned. One of my favorites, a Euclid earthmover.
IMO, one of the finest automotive sounds on earth is a Jimmy wound up tight under a load. Be that in an M-60 tank or the earthmover, it's a sound that says something major is happening.
As for the DD, they used to be called "Jimmy Diesels" because they were a GMC engine, in their trucks, along with all the other stuff that was mentioned. One of my favorites, a Euclid earthmover.
IMO, one of the finest automotive sounds on earth is a Jimmy wound up tight under a load. Be that in an M-60 tank or the earthmover, it's a sound that says something major is happening.
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Austin, Texas
Bigrig - you touched on what was peaking my interest... has anyone ever put one into a truck.
I heard that they can get a lot of power out of them, more than out of a 4 stroke, is that true?
Thanks, jroehl, that's the site that got me started.
I heard that they can get a lot of power out of them, more than out of a 4 stroke, is that true?
Thanks, jroehl, that's the site that got me started.
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Because each cylinder fires every crank rotation, they do make more power per cube than a four stroke and can be made to make more.
Someone else will address the "in a truck" question, but I think it's asked and answered--they are too darn big.
A couple of years ago I saw a fellow in Alhambra Ca with a "roadster" featuring an 8v-71 engine. It was a possibly a custom frame (it was tubular and filled with engine coolant, a trick used by the twin engine Olds 442 in the mid 60's) Anyway, the guy was all peeling from the burns he got trying to purge the air out of his frame... Anyway, the front and rear axel were truck, as in OTR tractor. Nice polished aluminum wheels. And the motor was all polished up, and looked pretty good sitting there with the supercharger like a fueler. Ok Ok, what's the point? The point is it was 9000 lbs!!!
So plan on fishplating your frame a little.
Someone else will address the "in a truck" question, but I think it's asked and answered--they are too darn big.
A couple of years ago I saw a fellow in Alhambra Ca with a "roadster" featuring an 8v-71 engine. It was a possibly a custom frame (it was tubular and filled with engine coolant, a trick used by the twin engine Olds 442 in the mid 60's) Anyway, the guy was all peeling from the burns he got trying to purge the air out of his frame... Anyway, the front and rear axel were truck, as in OTR tractor. Nice polished aluminum wheels. And the motor was all polished up, and looked pretty good sitting there with the supercharger like a fueler. Ok Ok, what's the point? The point is it was 9000 lbs!!!
So plan on fishplating your frame a little.
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From: Meriden Ct
I have A friend who used run A Chevy P/U drag truck with A Detriot 6V53 in it. Twin turbo into the blower, 55lbs of boost into the intake, Allison auto. It ran 10s and was A LOT of fun to watch. He would mix 1/2 auto trans fluid and 1/2 diesel fuel, it keep the injectors from locking in full fuel, at 5,000 RPM
Yes he red lined it at 5K.
Yes he red lined it at 5K.
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Marengo, Iowa
The 6-71 blowers everyone has heard of for drag and prostreet cars came form the 6cylinder 71 cube per cylinder version. It was the only blower small enough to fit the gas V8's. Also, one danger of working on the Detroits was that they can run on their own oil, making them run out of control, a runaway. In tech school any time we fired one up, an assistant would stand by with a kill plate to choke off the air if one started to runaway, rev uncontrollably. Could you imagine the shrapnel from an engine reving uncontrolled to the point of explosion? Yikes!!!!!!!!!! Especialialy one that weighs a few thousand pounds by itself!
The Pacifier
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Cloverdale, BC
JamesF250, yes they can be made to fit a pickup. If it were me doing it, I'd either get a 4-53 or a 6V53. They're heavy though. A 71 or 92 won't fit because they're just too big.
Now, if you do go and get one installed, make sure you get a freshly rebuilt one. They don't call them "green leakers" for nothing.
You'll want one with a tin oil pan, and not a cast iron pan. You'll want a turbocharged one. They all have blowers, but a turbo'd one makes more power. Those are usually called "Silver 53's" Most importantly, you want a right hand rotation, and not a reverse rotation. (They can be built both ways from the same block.)
Yeah, a freshly rebuilt "Silver 53" can cost you more than your truck, but it'll outlast your truck and probably the second truck you transplant it into.
Now, if you do go and get one installed, make sure you get a freshly rebuilt one. They don't call them "green leakers" for nothing.
You'll want one with a tin oil pan, and not a cast iron pan. You'll want a turbocharged one. They all have blowers, but a turbo'd one makes more power. Those are usually called "Silver 53's" Most importantly, you want a right hand rotation, and not a reverse rotation. (They can be built both ways from the same block.)
Yeah, a freshly rebuilt "Silver 53" can cost you more than your truck, but it'll outlast your truck and probably the second truck you transplant it into.
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 11,697
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From: Marengo, Iowa
Most truck shops joke that if it isn't leaking, it isn't running right. They can't run if there's no blower, but yes, they run better with a torbo. I honestly had forgotten about the reversr rotation, been a while since I had to think about it.The only real difference is cam.
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Raleigh, NC
Originally Posted by fellro86
The 6-71 blowers everyone has heard of for drag and prostreet cars came form the 6cylinder 71 cube per cylinder version. It was the only blower small enough to fit the gas V8's. Also, one danger of working on the Detroits was that they can run on their own oil, making them run out of control, a runaway. In tech school any time we fired one up, an assistant would stand by with a kill plate to choke off the air if one started to runaway, rev uncontrollably. Could you imagine the shrapnel from an engine reving uncontrolled to the point of explosion? Yikes!!!!!!!!!! Especialialy one that weighs a few thousand pounds by itself!
I've seen pictures of what a Cummins 5.9L did when it's governor relay went bad at a local Ford Commercial Truck shop, I believe it was a F-650 it happened to. It shot a piston through the roof of the shop and sent 2 guys to the ER from flying debris and tools.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Vancouver WA
There was a segment about 2 stroke diesels on Trucks! this weekend. Like most 2 stroke motor, they said that the powerband is mostly toward the higher RPM range, and that low RPM power was poor compared to a "normal" 4 stroke.