So, its not much of a chore to connect a photocell to a circiut to turn lights on at night and off in the morining. If I remeber correctly, the ones I use are rated 400-600 watts or so. Over time, my landscape lighting has grown quite a bit. Of course I could install more photocells but I would really like everything to go on/off at once. What are my options? Wire up a relay with sufficient power carrying capability? What do the pros use when they want to control, say 2KW?

 

How about an exterior timer switch ?

They are capable of handling 2 block heaters & numerous strings of Christmas lights.

 

all you need to do is get a lighting contactor. I do electrical work and that is what we use when wiring large buildings where people want to control lots of lights with just one switch. The contactor uses very little electricity so it can be controled by almost any type of switch or timer and you can get one that will handle any load you need.

 

If the contacts in the timer are rated high enough that would work.

I agree with gotdiesel, using a contacter is the best bet. Just wire it up so the photocell pulls in the contacter.

 

Good answers already , I'll just add a point that will come in handy for you later. The photocell is the best way to go, no need in having to mess with changing clock settings for daylight/dusks changes. Anything you buy will have to be listed as raintight for outside, so dollar wise, its better if it all can be put inside. I dont know whether your contactor will be inside or out, but something good to have is a manual control on your system, so you can check for bad lamps/wiring during the daylight by overriding the PC. Buy a lighting contactor with the proper amount of poles ( you can get up to 12 poles $$$$ ! ) and put one feed circuit per pole.

You can also get what is called a general purpose contactor, either in 2 or 3 pole, with a 120 volt coil ( you always have to specify coil operating voltage(120,220,277) when purchasing) that will work fine too, and are a little less expensive than true lighting contactors. As stated above, wire the photocell to where it makes and breaks power to your pull in coil on your contactor.

The way to get a MANUAL control for your photocell is to install a standard household 3 way toggle switch, mounted at your contactor( once again, raintight unit if applicable). There are a lot of different switches out here that can be used , its just that these household units are cheap and available everywhere.The contactor is handling all the loads, the PC and 3 way will be handling just a tiny bit of control power.

Run the 120 volt power (hot) for your PC/contactor coil to the "common "(black) screw on the 3 way sw first. Then , take one wire (any color except white or green) from one of the "traveler" screws (the two screws remaining on the 3 way sw.) and hook in to the line (hot) side on the pull in coil on your contactor. Take a wire from the other traveler screw of the 3way and hook to black wire(hot) of the PC. Take the red from the PC and put in on the "hot" screw of the pull in coil on the contactor also. At NO times are any neutral (white ) wires controlled , they must go right to the contactor coil/PC neutral wires, or neutral terminals.

Now, by putting the 3 way sw. in either toggle mode, you have a "night" setting for the PC to automatically operate yur lighting on, or flip it, and you have a "manual " setting for daytime override to see which lamps or out, or if you need to troubleshoot any landscape wiring, which is best done in the daylight. If your working on the wiring later, be sure that no one can "flip" the switch to the manual setting on you, turn off the power at the panel box, if accidental (children) flips could happen. Do this wiring ONLY if you have the proper electrical work skills, and if you dont feel comfortable with it, hire a pro, AND by all means work safe, good luck on your project . all jmo

 

Thank you all! What a great idea to use the three way swith Greg! I'm always amazed at how much I can learn. I've never heard of a contactor though! I'm guessing I will have to pick this up at the electrical supply house and not your local Lowes/Menards/Home Depot.

Ok guys, you made this easy. Now, what if I want to have a dimmer tied into the circuit? It could be neat using a 12-pole to have different dimmers on different circuits but I'm not sure if I want one to control everything or not. If I did, is there something that can control 2KW or so?

 

You must have a real yard museum to use that much lighting . You have yet to state your electrical wiring capabilties ,so I am a bit reserved in dishing out any more info that will give you a source of help to you, or info that used improperly, might get yourself or someone else hurt. Electrical work is not like DIYER home plumbing, a leak will get you wet, electricity kills. When you state you might use a 12 pole lighting contactor, that clued me as to either your wealthy, or you have never bought a lighting contactor. They cost close to 800 bucks each.

Home depot has a lot of books on home wiring, they are good, but I have went to a lot of handy homeowers DIYER electrician jobs and straightened out some real electrical nighmares. Not meaning to being a weeny here, I just dont want to lead anyone in to a situation where their skill level can get themselves or someone else hurt. On second thought, I am bowing out of any more on line electrical recommendations here, there are to many ramifications of advising people on electrical work, when I do not personally know their skill level. Its too risky for all, and I close on this note. good luck sir,


Homeowners in most states are legal to do their own wiring unlicensed, but are not excempt from inspection by the local authorities when the wiring consists of installing new circuitry originating from the panelbox.

{DISCLAIMER** Electrical work performed by non- licensed homeowners SHOULD always at least, be inspected by a person of journeyman electrician status ,to assure the safety of all , regardless of what the source was for their instruction.} all jmo

 

you should go to www.intermatic.com. they manufacture all sorts of timers and contactors and such. ibelieve they are also the makers of Malibu Lights.

 

It sounds to me like you need a "Stage Board". Multiple channels, variable power, variable control timing to each channel, Master on/off. Basically a small mixing board but instead of sound, you mix light. I have rented these units many times from the local R&R Instrument Rental Shops. All real Theatre's and Sound Stages even some Church use them. In any case these can usually cost several hundered dollars per channel.
A small "PLC" with the proper program and a few relays with their own power supply is way cheaper but; severely geeked.
New to the scene is PhotoCell Powered Landscape Lighting. This lighting has [B][I][U]No Control, No additional cost, No Wires, No Programming, etc, etc, etc,,, wow!!!!

 

Hey guys thanks, Greg I understand your concern as I have seen many stupid things over the years myself. While I'm not a licensed electrical contractor (if I was I probably wouldn't have had to ask about the hardware) but do hold a PE license and advanced degrees in engineering. (Now you will be really afraid to advise me). Here is the listing of loads:

23 upfacing zenon bulbs to illuminate the trees at 25 watts each.
6 lanterns with 3 40 watt bulbs each.
2 lamp posts with 3 60 watt bulbs each.
78 paver lights at 4 watts each (driven by 4 low voltage transformers rated at 88 watts per).
44 landscape lights 4 watts each (driven by 2 LV Xfromers rated 88 watts).
8 sets of floods 2 x 60 watts.
4 recepticals in the eves for holiday lighting (don't know the load of the christmas lights).

These are presently on a variety of circuits and controllers (PC's) but I would like to have a more homogenous control system. As I stated, I desire a single switching PC so everthing comes on and off at the same time and the ability to change intensities of different zones depending on the area of activity outdoors. I like Oceanwave's idea of an electronic controller but may refrain from it becuase one thing will lead to another and I'll have to do the whole inside of the house next.

I can certainly understand the liability involved in providing advice over the internet and it a shame that it stops those that have really good ideas, knowledge, and wisdom. But that's the way things go. Electricity is certainly more than plumbing isn't it? "Hot's on the left, cold's on the right, $ hit don't flow uphill" what's more to know?

I think my sig is indicative of my approach to all projects I undertake.

 

Hkiefus, Sir I now see your are qualified and my apologies to you for any wrong assumptions I have posted... I feel I owe you ,and the board, a bit more of an explanation for my bowing out of any more "on line" electrical help. I hold a state electrical contractors and masters license, for which I no longer use because I am no longer self employed. I renew those license $$$$ ! annually for the sole purpose of having a credit for my resume, if needed in the future. To keep those licenses in effect I have to pay yearly, a expensive contractors liability policy, covering me for all sorts of possible losses, suits, etc. while holding these licenses..


With that being said, the situation of myself giving out electrical work info as a licensed person vs. Joe Handyman who is not licensed, would most likely differ in a court of law. The judicial system holds people that are "licensed", no matter what their profession, to a much higher degree of personal responsibility. That is because the licensed person has to earn and keep that license, for whatever x skill, and they have to have x years of training/education , x years of on the job training, and of course, a completion of an apprenticeship for the x degree. To the "system" , that is at least on paper, proof of their legitamacy and knowledge of their profession...


This is a THEORETICAL situation, so please take it as such, but it could happen.
Say , after I post a well meaning and informative response to Tom Diy'er's question , he prints out my on line instructions, grabs up his handy tool box that he bought at Lowes, and commences wiring a service for a subpanel to his garage. Before he does this though, he happily shows his wife the posted instructions and how this nice fellow on line named Greg, told him how to do all of the wiring. Mrs. Tom notes her concern to him about his wavering skills of doing electrical work , but Mr. Tom assures her that all will be just fine, he has the instructions in his hand. A hour later, Mrs. Tom smells a burning odor toward the back of the house, investigates, and finds Mr. Tom laying on the floor below his panel box, with crispy pliers still clunched in his hand...

Mrs. Tom Diy'er is no doubt left bereaved, and some time later when she gets back to her senses , realizes that she now has no income and 3 children to feed. Then, hmmm, she remembers about that nice fellow Greg, and how that she might still have a husband, income, and wouldnt have the pain aching in heart, if it werent for this guy Greg. So, she picks up the phone and calls her family attorney.. who will then send a nice paper to the insured, licensed, professional named Greg, stating a day of deposition and at what court house to attend ...

Far fetched ?? I wish it was. I love being able to help out people with problems , I post a lot on here myself of ones I cant solve, that is what makes this site so great. I enjoy seeing people getting answers to their problems ,so they wont have to go to the expense of hiring a pro, if they can even afford it. But, how can we know from reading here , the skill level, safety mindeness of those that use our information on something as dangerous as electricity? In light of todays world of spontaneous litigation happy people, coupled with aggressive lawyers, IF the make believe case I typed above REALLY happened, I think Mrs. Tom Diyer would probaly win. (just my opinion folks, I am not a paralegal or lawyer !)

Now, if UNlicensed Joe Handyman gave Tom Diy'er the SAME posted info for his subpanel install that Greg did, he would not even be considered by a attorney, because Joe H. is not licensed, therefore not proven to KNOW that what he has posted is a valid testamonial, therefore it would be considered just an opinion, and MOST of all, Joe H. will not have a contractors liability insurance company for the lawyer to get the money from.

I hope that clears my position on this topic up, and IF my conjecture is totally wrong here, I hope someone knowledgable of the law regarding my make believe scenario above, will let me know otherwise. I would enjoy helping out here with electrical projects, I miss that, but until I can get the thought of the above scenario out of my head, I cannot do it with good conscience. I have found that one of the few GOOD things about getting older is, at least you have some life experiences to be able to help others coming along, that havent been there yet. Regards to all, Greg

 

Not to worry for the board, I knew what you were getting at in your 1st reply Greg.

You gotta protect yourself even moreso, in this day & age.

 

I have a word for the wise Greg, get some error & omission insurance! About $125.00 year for Professionals or Tradesmen. If you happen to forget to tell someone about a potential fatal fault or omit the fact that we should never be working on energized high voltage circuits, it would be the individuals lack of knowledge and skill that caused his harm. You seem to be fully cognizant of your legal responsibilities. Don't let some sleezy Lawyer take a bite out of your Pie. DIY er's are just that and have no business blaming someone else when they come to grief. FYI I myself am a strong proponent for DIY and I am more than Happy to take responsibility for my actions! This includes my dumb-*** stupid mistakes.
JK

 

It is a sad state of affairs isn't it? Greg, I support your position 100%. I'd rather do without or find another source of knowledge than have a zealous attorney harm one of my FTE bretheren.