This morning I powered the RF window DOWN of my '02 Expy XLT and I could not return it UP with either the driver's side master switch or the pass. side switch. All other windows work normally. Other threads on this forum seem to point to a faulty window motor. By the way, I have no paper/CD/DVD service manual and my electrical diagnostic skills can only be described as pitifull!!! Would I be better off having a dealer diagnose the problem: window motor, bad switch, etc.? Being the curious type, I dis-assembled the door panel on the passenger side: the instructions on a previous thread helped a great deal. I got the panel off (didn't break/snap anything), peeled off portions of that grey plastic sheet and was surprised to see very few access holes in the door to get to the window motor. The only possible one seems to be thru the speaker access. The mounting of the motor into the door seems to be done with what can only be described as "rivets" with perhaps a "threaded" pin thru the hollow dome of the rivet. How the (beep) do I remove those "rivets" and is there an easier access to the motor? Dealer wants $90 plus for a new motor, Autozone has one for $50 (6-pin wheel) and another for $70 (9-pin wheel) and "ebay" has a 9-pin "OEM" (very abused phrase IMHO) for $35 plus $7 shipping. Any history with the Autozone stuff? Poly, duct tape and a Covercraft custom cover (hopefully no downpours) should see me thru 'til I get this resolved. I would appreciated any help from any direct experience.

 

I had the same issue. Windows down then nothing. Try pulling the switch out and cleaning the contacts. It worked for me.

Chris

 

You drill the rivets out. The replacement units sometimes come with instructions. Service manuals also have instructions. The replacement units are bolted back in. They should have built the window motors with captive nuts but they probably put the doors together with some robot. Ford has been doing the rivets since forever tho...

 

Ok so you have pulled the wiring plug off the motor and tested for voltage when you toggle either or both switches and have found voltage? You now suspect the window motor. Plug back in the motor and tempreraly install the window switch. Now with the key on and the button pushed in the directon it needs to go, take a hammer and lightly rap on the motor, did it move? If not rap on it again, did it move. If so the motor is at fault but on the bright side you can now up the glass. It may continue to opperate from now on, but most likley 4 or five times. When looking into motor replacement also look for motor/regulator assembly replacement. Yes it costs more but you eliminate the possibility of a binding regulator causing your motor to go defunct. The riviots drill out or grind the heads off and the replacement should be rivioted back in, in some cases bolts can be used.

 

Sorry I took so long to get back to you guys: busy over the long weekend. Thanks for all your advice, but it looks like I'm in a holding pattern right now. After I slapped everything together BEFORE I got your responses, I ran a couple of errands with the Expy and, you guessed it, the freakin' window works!!! No clunks, screeching, grinding, etc. I cycled it a half-dozen times and left it in the UP position. Where do I go from here? Kinda tough diagnosing things that work. Could just my dis-assembly/re-assembly of the switches (without using any lube) have cured the problem? Is the window motor OK? Aside from a poor electrical/wire connection, can the motor still work intermittently? Murphy's Law says it will still fail permanently at a very inconvenient time (like rain). Any new thoughts?

 

[QUOTE=xxx609]After I slapped everything together BEFORE I got your responses, I ran a couple of errands with the Expy and, you guessed it, the freakin' window works!!! [QUOTE]


Mine was erratic for a while until it finally crapped out.

Here's some instructions from my manual.

The window regulator and motor are removed as an assembly.

1. Remove the front door trim panel.
2. Remove the front door radio speaker.
3. Remove the front door watershield.
4. CAUTION: Support the window glass to avoid damage.
Raise and support the front door window glass to the full up position.
5. Disconnect the power window motor electrical connector.
6. Remove the window glass to regulator nuts.
7. Remove the motor and window regulator assembly.

1 Drill out the rivets.

2 Remove the motor and window regulator assembly.

8. Note: Prior to motor removal, make sure the regulator arms are in a fixed position to prevent counterbalance spring unwind.

Remove the power window motor.

1 Remove the bolts.

2 Remove the power window motor.

 

Your primary problem is isolating the problem right at the moment. It could be that it was the passenger door switch. So who knows at this point whether your motor is bad or the switch? I would wait for it to fail and this time have a test light on hand to see if you get power and ground when and where you are supposed to get it. If it is a motor you neednt remove the regulator at all, as it can be replaced with everything in place. Just remove the door speaker as you suspected for access. You will need to have the window in the up position to do the work. If you read Toyvo post above he gives good technique to get the motor back up. It would be a lot easier to replace the motor than pull out the regulator. But you would really kick yourself if you replace the motor, or the motor and regular only to find it stick on you the next day because the problem was the switch all along. Ive seen plenty bad of both on F150/Expedition

 

The latest developement: I've done NOTHING!!! I must have cycled that front passenger window 50 to 60 times with no failure - works hot/cold, day/night, wet/dry. (I was a little reluctant to play with it during a rainy period). It looks like my only option is to wait until the switch/motor/regulator fails completely.

 

Buzzard, your post was helpful. I just got done taking mine out. My problem was that the output gear was broken in half!

I do have a question for you. Do you know how to set the counterbalance spring? It un-loaded when I took the motor off.

Thanks.

 

I humbly defer to Homer.

 

rosey, you committed the cardinal sin of motor replacement. Reinstalling that spring can be a major pain. I looked in my manuals for a written explanation with pictures I could post but Ford just doesnt have any. They leave it up to the tech to figure out..

Ive done many of them but it is hard to describe with just words and no pictures to show you what I mean. Basically the spring must be installed so that the lever that guides the window up and down is being forced upward to assist the window motor in raising the glass. It must be installed coiled with sufficient tension to do this effectively. The rookie tech will install the spring on the shaft of the pivot with a weak coilup and it will not help the motor. You have to turn the shaft another 180 degrees and then turn the lifting arm until the gear can be aligned to the motor gears and then install the motor. This requires a lot of physical strength and a good vise to lock it into place while you install the motor. It is sprung with such force that if it snapped back at you it could injure you. So I recommend you take the motor and regualator to a dealer tech and pay him to install the motor on the regualator. It may cost you half an hour labor but it beats improperly done or personal injury.

This is why I recommend changing the motor with the regulator in place in the door.

 

Hi Homer. I took the motor and regulator assy out because I thought the problem was the regulator. It was, sort of, in the end because the output gear had broken and jamed the mechanism. Yesterday I put the spring back on the regulator, I analyzed the 2 possible (likely) positions for the spring and ultimately, I put it at 180 degrees as you state and I found it to be quite simple using the following procedure. Install the spring. Set the regulator on the floor in a vertical position, have a 1/4" by 1" bolt and nut at the ready. I held the arms down with my knee, spun the preload into the spring motor mount assembly and then locked it in place with the bolt by putting it in the hole on the rack assembly such that it held the motor mount assy from spinning back. I also put a nut on the end to make doubly sure it didn't unload at the wrong time. Now it was simply a matter of putting it back in and bolting it up, releasing some of the tension by manipulating the regulator and removing the retaining bolt and nut.

I did have an interesting occurance with the replacement motor. I bought one from bumper-to-bumper. They were the lowest price and quickest delivery. The problem was that the replacement had a metal case where my motor had a nylon case. The mounting hardware from the nylon case motor is 3 rather course threaded screws. The mounting for the replacement required some sort of fine threaded bolts. No problem right? Just go to the hardware store and get 3 bolts that will work. No such luck. I stumped 3 different stores as to what kind of thread it is! In the end, I took it back and ordered the motor direct from Ford.

Thanks and regards,
Jim

 

Jim, thats great you were able to figure it out on your own. I usually have to show the new techs how to do it, or redo thier work.. sheesh.