Hey everyone ,my letter to FRAM is first,followed by their response.Here goes.

I used to use FRAM oil filters but have stopped because of build quality.While I prefer metal endcaps for the filters,if a good quality cardboard is used,a cardboard endcap filter may,may just be adequate(?).Also,sealing problems inside of the filter are an issue.The plastic parts that are used along with the metal springs and the cardboard ends just don't make sense,great glue or not.Another problem that I have with FRAM oil filters is the small inlet holes in the filter base.Are the holes small so that they restrict oil enough to keep the pressure low so that the filter internals will stay together? The inlet holes are just to small,larger holes would benefit the oil filters greatly.The holes cant flow as much oil as filters that have larger holes,which is all filters that I know of.Also,if cardboard end caps are of a great quality,why is the X-2 made using metal endcaps.The metal endcaps are the norm when it comes to the everyday plain off the shelf Champion Labs,Purolator and AC Delco filters.Champion and Purolator are usually cheaper than FRAM and of a better build.I just do not understand FRAM's reasoning behind the cheap internals of their filters.As large as FRAM is,your company could compete very well in price and quality as the other main filter companies(Purolator,AC Delco,Champion Labs).I would really like to use FRAM once again but the quality keeps scaring me away.I have read comments to others from FRAM regarding the build quality being great because of the glue and cardboard making a superior(?)seal etc.What I want is for you to tell me why I should by a $3.00 FRAM with its current quality over a $2.88 Purolator that is built better and stronger(metal endcaps in the base filter) .Even if things in both filters were the same(which they are not),why should I buy the more costly FRAM? I want this in plain simple language,no mumbo jumbo,just plain language as to why the FRAM is the better choice.


Thank you for the e-mail regarding of Fram oil filters. We welcome the opportunity to be of service.

Fram indeed uses a cardboard material in the construction of its oil filters. Fram filters meet the requirements of the original equipment filter designed for a specific engine. Our filter applications follow the recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer for form, fit, and function. Fram filters follow internally targeted design guidelines to meet the functional requirements of a given filter. Fram filters are tested against SAE standards to ensure uniform product quality and performance. Material construction will vary between filter manufacturers. We welcome the opportunity to enlighten you on the subject of cardboard used in Fram end disk construction.

A common misunderstanding among our customers concerns the end disks in the oil filter. These disks hold the glue which keeps the pleated media formed into a rigid circular tube. The glue-to-media interface is also one of the sealing surfaces keeping dirty and filtered oil from mixing. One common myth is that only metal end disks can adequately seal and have enough strength in the hot oil environment. For this reason, Fram filters are criticized for having cardboard end disks. The issue is, the material doing the sealing is the adhesive, regardless of the material of the end disk. What matters is the strength of the adhesive, its proper curing, the thoroughness with which it can be applied to the disk, and its adhesion to the disk. By using cardboard end disks, Fram filter engineers are able to specify adhesives with excellent strength and sealing properties, and strong adhesion to the disk (intuitively, it is easy to make a strong glue bond with cardboard). Moreover, just as paper media itself is able to withstand the hot oil environment, so too is the end disk designed of fibers engineered to be strong and inert in hot oil. The thickness and strength of the adhesive also stiffens the end disk considerably.

How do Fram engineers test these end disks to know that they hold up on the job? Not only do they perform hot oil circulation tests on the filter element, but they also regularly cut open used filters to examine how well they have withstood the rigors of actual use on a vehicle. For over 38 years, Fram end disks have stood up to hot oil and their adhesives have sealed off the dirty oil.

Regarding the metal end caps used in the X2 series, the Fram X2 Extended Guard filter uses a filter media that includes a reinforced mesh screen for maximum pleat integrity, durability, and oil flow. The inclusion of the metal screen increased the glue tolerances or thickness required for proper adhesion to the end disk. The original X2 prototype development specified the cardboard end disk technology. However, the increased amount of adhesive required to join the cardboard end disk to the screened media resulted in prototypes that did not conform to design standards. We had no choice but to use a steel end disk with the X2 filter media to provide uniform Extended Guard oil filter construction.

We are unable to comment of the pricing of Fram filter versus competitor filters. Retails outlet pricing will vary from company to company as it is their channels that determine what final price they will offer the consumer.

We believe that FRAM filters are clearly the best filters available. Fram is committed to standing behind and endorsing it's products and filter recommendations listed in the current Fram application catalogs. As part of this commitment, if you should ever have reason to suspect or question the quality of a Fram filter, we encourage you to contact the Fram Product Evaluation Team toll free at 1-877-250-8361 for further assistance.

Thank you for choosing Fram filters.

Cordially,

Joslyn Summers
Catalog/Technical Service Representative
Catalog/Technical Service Department

I stiil did not get all of my questions answered,hole size was not even discussed.The reason for metal ends in the X-2 still doesnt make sense,a thin metal screen does not add that much to the thickness of the filtering material.Is it just me or is this just more of FRAM's garbage?

 

This is a canned response. Someone posted almost the exact same letter 2-3 months ago.

 

That is the same type of response you would receive from any company when questioning their product.

 

Yep, what he said.

Expect canned responses. That is what you are likely to receive from companies. There is SOOOOO much they have to take into consideration these days.
Suppose somebody gives you (or anybody else) info that might be misleading, somewhat inaccurate, or otherwise falliable. Next day it's all over the internet, Nightline is wanting an interview, and a group of "disenfranchised" are threatening to sue.

So...caveat emptor!

 

I just sent the following to Purolator,I will post the response that they give it to me.I DO NOT use Fram because I am scared off by how they are made,this is just to try to get a response from Purolator.

I am writing to ask why your oil filters use metal endcaps instead of cardboard like FRAM does.FRAM has a very high rating on their filters.The cardboard caps should be easier to glue and should make a stronger bond to the filter element and endcaps while making it almost impossible for the internals to leak.Would not it be harder to glue the element to metal than to cardboard? This also would make your filters cheaper to produce so then maybe your filter would be cheaper and more people would by them.Also with the better gluing they wont have to worry about the filter leaking.If FRAM can have filters that are designed and built this way,then why cant Purolator? A good seal in the filter means that no dirty oil can bypass the element,this keeps the oil cleaner.With metal,wouldn't it be easier to have a bad seal and cause leaks? FRAM oil filters also use glass in their element to trap more dirt than regular paper.I have used Purolators before but with FRAM having a higher rating why should I use Purolator? The FRAMS are almost impossible to leak,can you say that about the Purolators?

 

I'm sure everybody has seen the construction analysis on the Fram, compared to other filters. Based on this, and the price of a Motorcraft at Wally World, Advance, etc., why wouldn't you use a Motorcraft?????

 

Yep. That's my position too.

Fram's are OK, but not worth a premium price. I'm not afraid to use them, but I'd rather buy a SuperTech for $1.97 than a Fram for $3.29, or a STP or Purolator on sale for $2.50 rather than a Fram on sale for $3.

 

just my input on this subject.
i had a 87 merc. grand marq. i bought it in 1992 with 28,000 actual miles on it. i used valvoline 10w30 oil and motorcraft filters on it the whole time i had the car, which was 11 yrs. at every oil change, it would dry knock BAD till oil pressure came up. i thought it was just the way it was, i gave the car to my sister last year and bought my 95 T-bird from my best friend who had the car for 2 years, he used valvoline 5w30 and motorcraft filters all the time, he told me when i bought the car from him that it had a dry knock at oil change too, prob. worst than my mercury did. well , i wanted the car, so i bought it from him anyways. i had the oil changed in it at wal-mart, and they didnt have a FL-820 in stock, so i put a fram PH2 on it, and i watched them do the oil change , valvoline 5w30 just like my friend used, and that car did not knock, none at all. so i kept on buying the fram filters, 3 oil changes and my car does not dry knock at all !!!!! someone explain that one to me. why would i want to use a motorcraft filter that cause a dry knock at the oil change, and why did it do it with motorcraft and not the fram ????
Frank

 

by the way i forgot to mention that my brother in law has a 91 geo prism and that he bought new and he has always used pennzoil 10w30 and fram filters, he still drives the car everyday, it has 290,000 miles on it, no motor work done to it at all, it still does not use oil and it has never had a dry knock.
Frank

 

What kind of response are you expecting here? I would bet that the response if any will be similar to the Fram response.

 

What kind of respone am I expecting? I want to see how honest and forthright Purolator will be.I am curious as to what they will say and if they will defend the way they make their filter and the materials used.This is the response I have received from Purolator so far.

Sir:
The fact is Purolator makes filters which use both paper and metal end caps depending upon the filter under consideration. As to the merits of each, I am not competent to discuss that issue. I will forward your message to our engineering department to see if they can shed some light on your request. As to the use of glass in the Fram filter media, I have no knowledge of their media, but Purolator filter medias have been developed through 75 years of efforts in the automotive filter industry to give quality service for consumer vehicles, and in all test data that I have seen compare favorably in function and price with any filters on the market at this time.

Tom (Filter Hot Line)

 

I am trying to find out as much as possible.It seems ironic that when someone is trying to find things out that someone else wants to know what they are expecting.I am at least writing these companies and asking the questions,some people just go off stating their opinions as facts,this is not what I am doing with these questions.By writing these questions,the companies show that even if the response is a canned response(no offense jchira,just making a point) that they do show enough respect to the consumer to write back.I have e-mailed other companies and never heard back from them in any way,that shows something of them,something bad.If people in this world never ask questions,they never learn.If we only think about what response we will hear when asking a question,we more than likely would never ask them.

 

Don’t think I'm bashing your efforts in trying to find out information from the maker of a filter. I'm only saying they there is not much hope for a real response to your questions. Companies are not usually willing to discuss the engineering of their product in detail with someone outside.

 

Fram oil filters suck. IMO. For same price or maybe cheaper you can buy a motorcraft or puralator. Check out walmart.

 

That's strange...i have a '95 t-bird with a 4.6L too, i have always use Motorcraft oil filters on it and it has never made a dry knock, nor any other kind of knock, and it has 130,000 miles on it.