I just bought my first diesel--and I am really happy with it. I looked at Cummins TD, but after reading a lot of their posts, began to realize the majority of those posting were trying to get more power out of their engine--or they were trying to find out why their engine wasn't running right after they made all the mods. I decided to go PSD and I would have the best without having to soak $10K to get the engine to compete with Ford's PSD.
I do have one question---I am sold on synthetic oil---I believe it doubles the life of an engine. When I asked the service manager about using synthetic oil, he checked with his "diesel mechanic" who told him that synthetic should not be used because "it does not have an anti-foaming agent" that is needed" and that "it would ruin the engine". What is the "real" story? Is it because Ford won't make anything on the 2.5 gallons of oil---or is there any truth to what he said? What does the manufacturer (Navistar?) recommend? How would I get in touch with them?

Thanks for the reply
Gembeau

 

Doesn't know what he's talking about. ANY oil, Synthetic or otherwise, will work provided it meets the API rating specified in the manual.

I'm planning on running Amsoil full synthetics for my entire drivetrain once I'm done with my break-in period.

-Steve

 

I have a friend who runs a Dodge with Cummins at 25 PSI boost. He has been running it with Royal Purple Synthetic for three years and loves that stuff. It's high, though, at about $10 a Qt. What about Rotella from Shell. I think they offer a synth.

 

Just make sure the oil has ratings on the back that start with a "C" CJ CH etc. C = Compression ign. (High Temp) S = Spark ign.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-Nov-01 AT 03:31 AM (EST)]At the factory, we add an anti foam agent called Lubrizal to the break in oil. If you run the engine with too little anti foam agent it will NOT ruin the engine. You'll know it by the fact that the engine will run rough and seem to have a miss at idle and maybe at other engine speeds as well. I too am an advocate of synthetic oil. All my vehicles have synthetic oil in them (none of them diesel). From what I know about synthetic, the primary advantage is its ability to withstand excessive heat and since the Power Stroke has a VERY efficient oil cooler, heat will never be a factor with this engine. When we run them on the dyno at rated speed (2700 rpm) at full load, the oil temp stays at 230 degrees and it will NEVER run that hard in the chassis, hour after hour, all day long. So, if you want to spend the extra money on synthetic oil and you are worried about the level of anti foam agent in the oil, you can get the anti foam agent at the Navistar dealer in a six-pack for a modest price. If you want to go the extra money for synthetic, it is your money. The 2 primary reasons to change your oil periodically is: (1) contamination and (2) depletion of the additive package so if your argument in favor of using synthetic is predicated on making your engine last longer, you are going to probably want to follow the manufacturers recommended oil change interval. If so, since there is no way oils in this era are going to be rendered unfit for use in 5000 miles.
, unless you can point to some tangible benefit (I don't think there is any evidence that synthetic oils provide any greater lubricity in a 5000 mile life cycle than mineral oils), I think you are wasting your money. But, as I said before, it is your money.

 

Joe,
I like your answer---and you are right about the temperature---if the PSD will run cooler oil, the non-synthetic will do just fine since I will have to change it at 5k miles anyway. Is there any basis for those who run synthetics in diesels to monitor their oil (using oil analysis) and changing oil when the "iron" content reaches a certain level---they change filters at the prescribed interval?

Thanks
Gembeau

 

Gembeau: I don't know the answer to your question (maybe someone on this forum can shed some light on this). I wouldn't expect the iron content to be particularly high once the initial breakin period is over.

A neighbor of one of our field reps was having a problem with his engine that the dealer was unable to fix (I can't remember what it was) so he got the company to give authorization for the dealer to pull the engine and send it back to us. We ran it on the dyno, fixed whatever the problem was but our head quality man thought he heard a knock in the engine so he had us pull the heads (we never found the source of any knock -- we thought the quality man was being over cautious). The point is, this engine had 42,000 miles on it and when we pulled the heads the cross hatch marks were still clearly visible in the cylinders. Our cast iron has a fairly high content of nickle and whatever else makes it hard, so, as cast iron goes, our castings are a little harder than average which should give longer cylinder bore life.

Here is just one other thing to think about. There is just under 1 quart in the reservoir, a little more than a quart in both high pressure rails, about a quart in the oil cooler and if you don't change the oil filter there is slightly less than 2 quarts in it. The reservoir oil, the oil in the rails and the oil in the cooler, about 3 quarts (or a little more) you can't drain under any circumstances. I would change the filter every time I changed oil if for no other reason than to get rid of the dirty oil in it. (Just my opinion).

 

Some of this sounds pretty detailed, and I would appreciate some advice on my oil. My truck is a 1995 PSD and I have been using Blackstone labs to analyze the oil fora bout 15,000 miles/5,000 mile oil changes.

I use Shell Rotella 15W-40, use the truck very easy for what it was designed for and get good reports back from Blackstone - excpet for Chromium. The spread isn't big on this reading, but normal is a value of 1 and I consistently get a value of 2.

I have 67,000 miles, the truck runs well and all other readings inlcuding air filtration (silicone) read just fine. I use anywhere from 1 - 1-1/2 quarts of oil between changes, ie 6 months or more.

Thanks for any insights.

totalrecall

 

Totalrecall: Give me a few days on the chromium issue and I'll see if I can find out the likely source.

 

 

Totalrecall: Our guys don't pay much attention to any other values than lead (rod and main brgs are a lead/aluminum alloy), aluminum (pistons) and copper (cam bearings and wrist pin bushings). The most likely source of chromium for your truck (1995) is piston rings. As I recall, we were using a chrome top compression ring and a chrome oil ring at that time. But we don't check for chromium. I don't know if this is a problem or not. What does your oil analysis lab say about it?

 

Balckstone has a summary area where they discuss what they found, if anything. I believe they only mention the CHROMIUM value because all of my other reading are below all other average wear values. They don't make any other recommendation, and if there was a real problem, I know they would.

They also attribute the CHROMIUM to Piston Rings. But I get good MPG )for a 7000lb truck) and it runs well. My oil consumption could be lower but a 1 - 1 1/2 quart usage over 6 months and 5,000 miles is not bad. I do a lot of running around with the truck stopping and starting and Rotella is easy to find, so I am sticking with success.

Thanks for the info

totalrecall

 

I have used both Royal Purple and Amsoil in my truck for over 60,000 miles and both have preformed well. I have not had any problems with foaming. For some reason however, I used (burned) more Royal Purple in comparison to the Amsoil. So I'm staying with Amsoil for now. The dual remote by-pass oil filters really do a good job (less metals in my oil tests). I was told by one of the tech guys at Royal Purple to break-in the engine with non synthetic oil 10,000 - 12,000 miles before switching to synthetic - I followed his advice, but I'm not sure if its true. So far I love the synthetics!

 

I just checked the odometer--and it shows 1400 miles. Now I know that 1400 miles is just a tiny fraction of the several hundred thousand I'll put on this engine and vehicle----but it is significant. I checked the oil--I'm about a quart low, which is probably pretty good--but the really great thing is the cleanliness of the oil. It is so clean on the dipstick that I had a hard time checking it. From my experience with gas engines, I expected the oil to be a little dirty, especially with diesel---I am pleasantly surprised.
I have been religiously checking my fuel mileage---I'm getting about 17 around town and about 22.5 on the freeway (trips to Arlington from Waco and return)---I think I'll keep it!!

Gembeau

 

Just my 2 cents. Have a buddy who runs an Alcohol Fueled Federal Mogul Series (NHRA) Funny Car. In the pits we clean parts with brake clean. This past season we switched to synthetic oil. Now the synthetic oil is much harder to clean off the parts, often requiring 3 or more applications of brake cleaner to get them clean. That's all it took to sell me, I run full synthetic oil in my Super Duty and all of my other cars!!