1979 Bronco
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From: Middleton, ID
1979 Bronco
I've got the chance to purchace a 79 Bronco for cheap. It's got a 335 series motor but I don't remember which one, what I want to know is, which motor is better the 351M or the 400M. I know they both have their draw backs(I've read many articles on each). Oh and it's got a C6 W/ shift kit.
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From: Corinth, TX
actually, I believe it is a 400M. Or more technically, a 400 Cleveland (Modified). These late-70s big-blocks were 'modified' to meet the new emissions standards. I had a 351M in my '78 F-150 and I looked it up back then to see what the difference was between the 351M and the 351C. IIRC, the same applies to the 400.
-Josh
-Josh
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From: South Ga
actually, I thought the “M”, did not stand for anything. Ford only used the “M” designation to distinguish it from the 351 W (Windsor) and the 351C (Cleveland)?? The “M” designation has grown to mean “modified” or “Michigan”, even though the 351M was produced at both the Cleveland foundry and Michigan casting center..............
I think these are correct specs:
h/p @ rpm
351m - 156 @ 4000
400 - 159 @ 3800
torq @ rpm
351m - 262 @ 2000
400 - 276 @ 2000
I think these are correct specs:
h/p @ rpm
351m - 156 @ 4000
400 - 159 @ 3800
torq @ rpm
351m - 262 @ 2000
400 - 276 @ 2000
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From: Middleton, ID
Those numbers seem kinda crappy for such a large displacement engine, emissions i'd guess had a big part in the power output but, damn seems too low. And yes the M for the most part was the designation of Modified deriving from the work to pass the EPA requirements, also a few called it the 351/400 Michigan, but they were there to distinguish between the two 351s (or three if you count the Cleveland)
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From: Corinth, TX
3bc, I'm sure you already know this, but just in case... the 351w is a small block, the 351C and 351M are big-blocks. AFAIK, the only difference between then 351C and the 351M is the EPA equipment. I'd always heard that they were built at the cleveland plant, but I could be wrong. I sure wish my grandfather was still around. He was a machinist at the Ford plant in Dallas (when there still was one), retired with Ford after almost 50 years of service, and knew just about everything there is to know about these engines and trucks. Unfortunately he passed several years ago and he never fully educated me on the older Fords :-)
-Josh
-Josh
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From: Middleton, ID
The one thing about the Clieveland and the Windsor is that the bellhousing will work both. Back to the 335 series, what is the best way to make these engines work to their optimal potential?
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From: Corinth, TX
ummm well here is my suggestion. first of all, the cleveland and the windsor do NOT use the same bellhousing. that's just part of BB vs SB. Anyway, as I posted in another thread, the M motors are built to meet EPA standards for 1980. in a 1979 truck (unless you're in CA) you can take off the emissions bits and get some really nice power. Start with exhaust. A stock 79 Ford with an M motor will have a catalytic converter. Get rid of that with a nice off-road intermediary pipe, dual exhaust if you can fit it in there. That will wake up the strangled M. Start looking at heads and intake/carb because most 351Ms came with a 2-barrel POS. A nice edelbrock intake/carb setup will make a huge difference, especially with good exhaust. Throw in a cam, put on some nice heads, port them along with the intake to match.... whew now i need a cigarrette 
-Josh
-Josh
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Originally Posted by djjoshuad
3bc, I'm sure you already know this, but just in case... the 351w is a small block, the 351C and 351M are big-blocks. AFAIK, the only difference between then 351C and the 351M is the EPA equipment. I'd always heard that they were built at the cleveland plant, but I could be wrong. I sure wish my grandfather was still around. He was a machinist at the Ford plant in Dallas (when there still was one), retired with Ford after almost 50 years of service, and knew just about everything there is to know about these engines and trucks. Unfortunately he passed several years ago and he never fully educated me on the older Fords :-)
-Josh
-Josh
Actually the 351M/C are smallblocks as well. They share some of the bigblock characteristics but all 351s are smallblocks.
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From: Corinth, TX
351W is a small block based engine. 351C uses certain small block features such as mounts and bellhousing, But uses large port big block style heads. The 351M and 400M use big block mounts and bellhousings and are similar to big block 429 and 460 engines.
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From: Corinth, TX
BTW, I stand corrected on the bellhousing... the 351W and 351C use a small-block tranny-bolt pattern, but the 351M/400M use a big-block pattern. here's an excerpt from a reliable source:
"The 351C has a 9.2 deck heighth , and the 351[M]/400[M] is 10.2. The 351C is the only one without 3in main bearings, which is the same as a big block. The 351Ws has a 9.5 deck heighth. The 351W & 351C use a small block trans bolt pattern and the 351/400 uses the big block trans bolt pattern. Same with the motor mounts. They all have the small block head bolt pattern, and the 351C and the 351[m]/400m heads will interchange."
needless to say, I'm a bit confused now I've had some of this stuff in my head for quite a long time, and now I'm starting to think that I've been previously misinformed. Makes me want to get one of each engine to look at side-by-side. Anyway, I do have some experience getting a 351M to run like a champ. So at least those recommendations are valid 
-Josh
"The 351C has a 9.2 deck heighth , and the 351[M]/400[M] is 10.2. The 351C is the only one without 3in main bearings, which is the same as a big block. The 351Ws has a 9.5 deck heighth. The 351W & 351C use a small block trans bolt pattern and the 351/400 uses the big block trans bolt pattern. Same with the motor mounts. They all have the small block head bolt pattern, and the 351C and the 351[m]/400m heads will interchange."
needless to say, I'm a bit confused now
I've had some of this stuff in my head for quite a long time, and now I'm starting to think that I've been previously misinformed. Makes me want to get one of each engine to look at side-by-side. Anyway, I do have some experience getting a 351M to run like a champ. So at least those recommendations are valid -Josh
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From: North Carolina
Originally Posted by djjoshuad
actually, I believe it is a 400M. Or more technically, a 400 Cleveland (Modified).
1970Custom, a slightly modified 400 makes awesome power, don't let the stock horsepower numbers fool you. Mine (and several others on this board) has an aftermarket intake manifold, a 4 barrel carb, an aftermarket cam and some head work and it is a BEAST. If you haven't already, check out the 335 series forum for more specifics. I think you'd be pleased with this engine in your Bronco.
Last edited by Indybroncoman; May 14, 2004 at 05:18 PM.
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From: Ypsilanti, Michigan
Go to this site:
http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/index.html
His site will explain everything you ever wanted to know about the 335 series, and debunk some of the long standing myths about the 351M/400. The only physical difference between these two engines are the crank, pistons and balancer. Everything else is interchangable. These engines were so down on power because of factory tuning to meet emissions. Around 7 degrees cam retard from the factory. Real cheap to get these engines back to where they should be in terms of power. I will now be building up a 400 for my truck, since the 351M spun a bearing recently. Pretty much plan on what everyone else here has done. I already have headers, intake and 4bbl carb i can cannibalize, as well as roller rockers, and maybe the cam. Time the cam back to straight up, do minimal work to the heads(stock 2V heads are great on these engines), and a engine swap is all I'll need to do. Now I just have to find the money to do all this.
Don't worry about having a 351M/400 in that Bronco, enjoy it.
brent
http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/index.html
His site will explain everything you ever wanted to know about the 335 series, and debunk some of the long standing myths about the 351M/400. The only physical difference between these two engines are the crank, pistons and balancer. Everything else is interchangable. These engines were so down on power because of factory tuning to meet emissions. Around 7 degrees cam retard from the factory. Real cheap to get these engines back to where they should be in terms of power. I will now be building up a 400 for my truck, since the 351M spun a bearing recently. Pretty much plan on what everyone else here has done. I already have headers, intake and 4bbl carb i can cannibalize, as well as roller rockers, and maybe the cam. Time the cam back to straight up, do minimal work to the heads(stock 2V heads are great on these engines), and a engine swap is all I'll need to do. Now I just have to find the money to do all this.
Don't worry about having a 351M/400 in that Bronco, enjoy it.
brent
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Originally Posted by djjoshuad
BTW, I stand corrected on the bellhousing... the 351W and 351C use a small-block tranny-bolt pattern, but the 351M/400M use a big-block pattern. here's an excerpt from a reliable source:
460 big block, 351M/400
360/390FE block
302/351W small blocks
Ben