Since gas prices are a bit high, say 2.03 at the mobil, I was thinking about making ethanol and mixing it in with my regular fuel. I know I souldnt mix too much, but should I do it? Will it harm my rig in any way at all?

 

How are you gonna make it? Set up a still? I think you'd be hard pressed to make any money at it. By the time you round up the copper tubing, burners, and grain you'll be out more money than you'd ever save. Even then, you have to get it distilled out very well, otherwise you'll be putting water into your tank. Even if you do get it working, you'll have a hard time convincing the feds that you're not selling it for drinking (moonshine).

I'd say leave it to the ethanol refineries. If it was me (in Iowa it may very soon be the way gas prices are going) I'd go find an ethanol refinery and see what you can buy it from them for.

I think 15-20% would probably be safe. In summer you can run much more, since you dont have to worry about cold starts. You may also want to upgrade your fuel system components so they aren't eaten by it. I think any vehicle that was designed to run on E10 could probably run on about any percentage, up to 100% in summer, without a problem. The computer will compensate with enough fuel. In winter, dont go over about 20%. You still need it to start, and you dont have the heated manifold like the flex fuel vehicles.

To REALLY do it right, you'd need to build up your engine for it from scratch. This means around 14:1 compression ratio, a heated manifold, and a computer or carburetor calibration to match. This way you should be able to match the fuel economy of gasoline.

 

Getting all the stuff isnt that hard. We already have a pressure cooker, the tubing and I already get free corn, It shouldnt be too awful expensive. I found an article about it, heres the link

http://www.ethanol-crfa.ca/vehicle.htm

 

I have rn 5 % in both carbed and injected vehicles, not trouble. I had it in my 83 trans am when it was 10 below and it fired fine. Pure ethanol likely would have given me trouble, but being mixed it was ok, and the factory compression was about 9:1. As long as it can handle 10%, it can handle higher as far as fuel systems go. Don't believe the myths that ethanol causes problems, such as plugging or eating up seals, that only happens wheneither the seals are pre-alcohol, or the gas company slipped in methanol instead. Most carb kits come with alcohol ready seals. If the seals are blue, they are alcohol seals. The only trouble I have encountered is on single throttle body setups as the pressure is too low and the fuel line routing was such that it induced a vapor lock problem, but some plumbing pipe insulation solved the problem generally. I ran it through a 90 cChevy truck with no problem, it had dual throttle body and stock engine, 88 Celebrity w/2,8 v-6 multiport injection, the 83 T/A, 87 celebrity with 2,5 throttle body, friends 91 Grand Am w/2.5 t-body, 92 Grand Prix w/3,1 multiport injection, and other members of my family have run it with the same results. I have considered the same, but I was able to get the 85% at the pump, so I went that route as it tends to run 30 cents or so cheaper than regular. You would be best served to get a permit, which isn't a big deal, then the feds won't be bothering you about it. BTW, my fuel economy was the same or slightly higher with this mixture.

 

For a normal gas engine 10% is the absolute max at room temp or it will eat up fuel system components. With the underhood temps the fuel system sees you should run only 5%.

Even if you do distill the alcohol well it will immediately absorb water from the air. When the alcohol evaporates it leaves the water behind which corrodes (rusts) your entire fuel system. This is very bad on small engines like lawn mowers that do not see daily use.

 

I have done this alot in the past few years, and have not experienced the problems you describe, rather to the opposite, as my fuel system components are cleaner than they would be on regular gasoline, most look as if they have never been run. Absolutely no varnish at all. The fuel companies like to put in methanol, but not disclose it, as apparently it is cheaper foer methanol rather than ethanol. Methanol is nasty crap, it will do as you describe, as it is very corrosive, being made from wood pulp. I haven't tried it iin small engines, but my uncle had built a still for testing purposes and ran it through my dad's 111 John Deere and it doesn't get run out right away, and never had any problem, it actually seemed to run better on it. Besides, if it will do it at higher levels, it is still doing it the lower levels too, so shouldn't it show up then? Also, you get water in regular gasoline with no ethanol, doesn't matter where you buy it from, it will have some water in it, and it should be the same effect as if it never had alcohol in it to absorb the water. I f I understand the chemistry right, the water forms a strong bond with the alcohol, and does not evaporate separately. This leads me to believe that either your experience is with methanol, or once again ethanol got blamed for something it actually didn't do. There is a lot of miseducation out there, and I don't want to sound like a conspiracist, but there is a lot to be gained by the oil companies to not let ethanol be used yet, not until they have made their profits of the dino fuel, while keeping us dependant on the foreign oil. ADM did a study on running 100% ethanol on a Ford Fiesta back in the early 80's, and there was no mention of corrosion, rather a lack of. They had to rig up a washer pump with regular gas for cold winter starts, but ran it on nothing more than pure ethanol the rest of the time. This testing was 2 years long. Also, if it were such a problem, countries like Brazil would have problems like this, and I doubt that the can afford to make entire fuel systems out of stainless. It is my understanding that the only modification they do is a slightly higher compression, 9.5:1, and jetting changes. The ADM test invovled a stock motor, and the only mods being carb jetting and the washer pump.

 

I just look at my prior post, and it should read 85%, not 5, didn't catch that for edit.

 

fellro86:

Your "starting fuel" story reminds me of the old John Deere 2 cylinder all-fuel tractors that had small gasoline tanks (~1-2 gallon) used to start the tractor. As soon as the engine warmed up you would switch to the larger tank & run on kerosene or other petrolem distillate.

However, if at shutdown you did not switch back to gasoline for a short time to get the sediment bowl & line to the carburetor emptied of the kerosene & replaced with the gasoline you would either need to bleed the line later when you wanted to restart the tractor, or crank the engine a good while! With a good starter & battery (if your tractor even had an electrical system) - not so much of a problem, but if you had to "armstrong" start it you could build Bonds-like muscles with no "supplements"!

dn.

 

1. MATERIALS COMPATIBILITY
The first question to consider in approaching engine conversion is whether there are any materials in the fuel system or related systems that will be damaged by ethanol. It would be most unfortunate to pour ethanol in your tank and have parts of the carburetor dissolve.
Metals commonly used in fuel systems are usually ethanol-compatible. Magnesium is known to suffer severe corrosion when in contact with ethanol. Fortunately, it is rarely found in fuel systems. Among non-metals, cork does not fare well with ethanol. Polyurethane and fiberglass-reinforced polyester have also been known to deteriorate in ethanol. Avoid plastic fuel filters - the glass ones are preferable. Aside from these items, non-metal problems with ethanol are unlikely.

 

good point shaggy, that's why many small engines can't handle ethanol as they used a lot of cork seals in the past, although many of the newer ones are neoprene. Natural rubber tends to dry up and crack as well, that's why neoprene is necessary.

 

So I should be OK with the ethanol stuff. Ill be sure no to put more than 10% in, and since irt cleans the system, it seems to be good all around.

 

Before you make any E2Oh, check your local laws. Last I checked, you had to have a permit from A.T.F. , and you will have to have a permit from your State department of revenue. It is just as illegal to distill spirits for motor fuel as it is for consumption. You are avoiding fuel taxes. Illegal for on road vehicles. Off road vehicles? E2Oh, unlike methanol, is fit for human consumption. If you Make distilled E2Oh in Ga., without permits, I can guarantee you it is a felony.

 

have you checked out the Mother Earth News website ? Those guys were distilling ethanol on a still that they pulled around on a flatbed trailer, they pulled with an 80s ford truck that burned what they made. the I think had an ATF permit but were followed around by revenuers alot. It seems the biggest problem ethanol fuel has is that it is also the same alky in drinkin' liquor, and the government just can't stand the idea that someone may have a good time without the gov't collecting a fee of some sort. Try a Google search for ethanol fuel still and see what you find. DF, @ his Dad's house

 

these are some good links. I've done some reading there.


http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com...fuel/id28.html
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...meCh7.html#7-5
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...rth/meCh9.html
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http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com...fuel/id10.html
How difficult/expensive is the US licensing process for making alcohol?

A. Getting a licence from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (BATF) is not difficult, and only takes about a month.
The thing is, the "Experimental fuel distillers' permit" was created back in 1979, and unless you specifically tell them the Form number of the type of permit you are applying for, it will get rejected.

Take a look at this new web site from the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms) for kids. It tells you how to get the permit.

I thought it pretty strange that the BATF would have a web page for kids, but it is even stranger that this site for kids is labeled, "Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives". Check it out: http://www.atf.treas.gov/kids/faq.htm

 

http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/ethanol.htm

This one links to about 50 other links about ethanol. Lots there.