I have been asked to price a vinyl siding job. I have never worked with the stuff before and I am looking for advice and tips on the installation and pricing if possible.

 

To really do the job right, I would think you need a metal break. Everything that isn't covered with siding should be wrapped with color matched aluminum. All window and door trim, soffet trim, facia boards etc. I have had 4 duplexes sided in the last 2 years with vinyl siding. It only accomplishes half the goal if you still have trim to paint.

 

Myself, I would stay away from vinyl siding.
Your house will rot from the inside out I have seen it time after time. Spend the money and get cedar siding it will also look better too. Good Luck.

 

If properly installed vinyl will last a long time. Use aluminum nails to nail the siding, be sure the nails are centered in the nailing slots and DO NOT sink the nails tight. The nails must be loose so the siding can move as it expands and contracts. Nailing the vinyl tight results in "waves" of siding when the vinyl expands!

Jskufan is right, without wrapping all the trim in aluminum the job is incomplete and a metal brake is necessary to bend the aluminum to fir the trim.

 

There are a whole bunch of things that factor in when giving a siding estimate,for one,what are you applying the siding to,cinder block is a higher estimate because you have to apply furring strips first,and another thing,if you are siding a home that has the old asbestos tile type siding,then you can get into a whole nother ball game,some states require that the old siding be removed and disposed off and asbestos is hazardous waste,so it can run into big money.Other things that factor into the cost are soffett length,custom bent trim,amount of openings (windows&doors)that have to be trimmed around,how many floors,and the type of siding(horizontal=vertical)And one other thing to point out,make sure that the supplier has enough of the same batch numbered color to do your job,your customer will not be happy if he sees color variations

 

you get the area of the house multiplying height times width of the area to be sided then go to lowes and they can help ya figure out how much siding would be figure $35 per sindow to cap $55 per door $70 per patio door, using the cheap plain white capping. If you get the vynal clad capping its more money at least $10 per item. Measure out the soffets and that will give ya the info to get costs for the material there i alternate one vented piece after every two solid piece of soffit.
After you get a price of the siding, Corner pieces, J channel, Nails ,Styrofoam insulation, starter strips etc i tend to double the supplies to get the labor costs. Also dont forget to figure in if you need to rent scaffolds or a break Home Depot here rents tools, but lowes is cheaper on the siding
Id buy a book on siding installation its simple but the book should give ya a hint or too , and follow the prior posters advice about the nails i found that out the hard way

 

Do yourself a favor, either seek the advice of a professional in your area, and see if he will work with you as your sub contractor. Siding is'int the hardest thing to do, but it does require skill and knowledge. It's not everyone who can just go to the rental shop and pickup a 10' Vanmark, and then start making professional bends. There are already way too many butchers in this field. Anyone can go down to their licensing office to get their occupational license, county clerks office for a DBA, and start up a small business liability insurance policy.
These clowns then go around sub contracting for companies like Sears or Champion (who charge enough money for their jobs to buy a new truck BTW). You've never done it before? Do you know what a brake is? If the honest answer to that question
is no, then you'd best let someone else sub it from you. Nothing wrong with making a little cash on the side off a job like this, while your doing whatever it is your good at in the meantime.
This being said, whether or not you choose to do the installation yourself, you should be the one to sell the job. Do not let your prospective sub contractor come into contact with the home owner until you yourself have already made your presentation, and have gotten all necessary contracts signed and properly filled out. Remember -these people are your customers - not his. Skills and knowledge aside - it's the name on the contract who calls the shots - if something goes wrong - it's your ***.

Stay away from Home Depot and Lowes for your materials. Homeowners are all too familiar with these places. They don't know any better. Educate them. Find a siding supply house which deals specifically in home exterior products. They carry many different types of siding, and all of them are of a much better quality than the cheap garbage you'll find at Home Depot. The best siding I've ever worked with bar none, is
a product called Charter Oak. It's manufactured and distributed by a company called Alside. The second best would be a product called Maxim - manufactured by LP, and distributed through Modern Builder's Supply. Both products are guaranteed to withstand winds up to category 5 hurricane levels. Both products will cost you between 65 - 80.00 per square, depending upon the color.

Both distributors will have presentation kits available. These kits will assist you in making sales and help you to distinguish yourself from your competition. These kits include samples of the product in both woodgrain and smooth satin finishes. They will also contain a piece of GP or Owens material for comparision in thickness, finish, and
structural quality. Use this to explain for your customers, who would not have known better otherwise, that there are many differing qualities of siding available. They are not all one and the same. The better products won't fade, crack, peel, or scale. Their colors also go all the way through the panel. They have 3/4" depth (as opposed to 1/2"), for a higher quality finish. Being thicker allows these panels to better span wavy wall imperfections for a better looking job. Lifetime transferrable warranties also apply on the materials. Iclude in your price the cost of 3/8" fanfold insulation board. This will make the job much easier for the installer by giving an even substrate to fasten the siding to, - especially on homes with asbestos siding. As an added benefit this board also has some insulating qualities for both temperature and to a lessor extent sound - play this up to them as well.

Do not use aluminum nails. They are a headache, and on something hard like asbestos they will bend or require so much pounding that the asbestos starts breaking up. Use at least 2" long galvanized roofing nails. As was mentioned earlier, you must not fasten the panel too tightly against the wall - it needs to shrink and expand with varying degrees in temperature, and some walls can have more than an inch in loose spongy material before you reach a good fastening surface - don't forget, your also adding 3/8" to that with the fanfold. Remind them they get what they pay for. You won't get a PSD at a V10's price.

Once you have decided on what materials to offer the customer (you decide the actual line- and then assure your customers it's the best available - never make the mistake of giving them too many choices - they will get lost), get the kit for it, and also a color chart. They can then choose either a dutchlap or clapboard design in whichever color they like. Be sure to take at least a little time to familiarize yourself with your product and it's accessories. You must at least appear knowledgeable of your own materials in order to gain the homeowners confidence.

No siding job is complete without the necessary trim. Properly trimming a home and preparing it for the siding will be three fourth's of the entire job. Woodgrained PVC coil
provides a much better finish, as well as being a more durable material. It only costs 10.00 more per roll than the cheap stuff does - get it, and use it. Use mountmaster lightblocks for porch lights. Split J blocks for water spickets. J - Channel all windows and doors - and be sure to use undersill trim under and over each and every opening - this will ensure that the siding lays straight in circumstances where you may have had to cut a reinforcing ribbon away for the opening. J blocks and split blocks make a job look much nicer - theres no cutting the siding around dryer vents, or lights, and then needing to use unsightly caulking around these wall fixtures later.

Flashing is very important. Make sure to flash above every window or door opening which is not covered by at least 36" of overhang.This will ensure that no water standing in the top J channel seeps behind the siding to the subsurface - if that happens it will cause rot. If double J channeling an inside corner, you will need to bend an aluminum flash at 90 degrees -each part being at least 4" wide. Install this before the J channel. This will prevent wind driven rains from getting behind the J channel to the subwall - again causing rot.

Remove all larger wall fixtures from the wall prior to siding. This would include electrical meters, gas meters, water meters, hose hooks, clothesline brackets,telephone boxes, satellite dishes, etc. The siding should go on the wall uninterrupted - as if it were a new home. These fixtures are then later refastened to the wall OVER the siding. J channeling around these items looks cheap, and detracts from the finished product.
It also allows for more water permeation. It would be similar to Ford taping your seats together in a new truck. These people are paying for quality work and should get it.

All trimmed window and door openings should be caulked for better insulating qualities, and water tightness. Proper caulking is not the easy job most think it is. The best I've used is a product made by OSI called Quad. It's an oil based caulk. It won't absorb water. Alge and fungus will not grow on it or discolour it. It shrinks and expands with teperature, so it's very resistant to cracking, and it won't peel. Latex is only good if it is going to be covered by a high quality paint on a wood surface which needs to breath. Neither of these conditions is true in this case, and latex is the worst caulk
to use for it - especially vinyl clad aluminum trim coil. Quad caulk takes some getting used to. You will need WD-40 or some other oil type solvent to put a nice smooth bead on it. (Make sure not to get any solvent on your siding - it's best to do as much caulking as possible before applying the siding itself). When caulking windows, be sure not to caulk over their weep holes. These allow water to drain from the bottom extrusion and caulking over them will allow water to build up into the sash.

 

Here are some pricing considerations for you, I am basing them on my general method -jobs will vary of course, but it's good for a general rule - I've also taken into consideration that you are in California where prices may be a bit higher for both materials and labor.

Material;

1.) Charter Oak D 4.5" Dutchlap/clapboard premium vinyl siding........75.00 per square
2.) 3/4" x 12' J Channel 4.00 per piece.
3.) UT trim (undersill) 3.00 per piece.
4.) Galvanized steel starter strip - 2.5" x 10'...2.50 per pc
5.) Mountmaster J block ......7.00 per pc
6.) Mountmaster Split block..7.00 per pc
7.) Mountmaster dryer vent .10.00 per pc
8.) Outside corner post .......12.00 per pc.
9.) 24" x 50' PVC trim coil .....65.00 per roll
10.)T-4 lanced soffit - 12 FT..7.00 per pc
11.)Quad caulking .......4.00 per tube.
12.)Fanfold insulation...15.00 per square.
13.)2" galv roofing nails...50.00 per 50lb box.
14.)11/4" SS trim nails.....5.00 per 1lb box.

Without seeing a home I would estimate at the very least the following materials per square;

1.) 1 sq siding = 75.00
2.) 5 3/4" J Chan = 20.00
3.) 2 U Trim = ...6.00
4.) 1 sq Fanfold = 15.00
5.) 1 steel starter = 2.50
6.) 2lb 2" nails = 2.00
7.) 1 split/J block = 7.00
8.) aluminum = 5.00 (for various flashing)
9.) 3' FT of O/C post per sq = 3.00

Total materials per square = 135.50 per square. (a square is an area equal to 100 sqft)
Sub contractor per square = 110.00 per square.
Your profit margin and sales commission = 35% of cost (245.50) = 86.00.

86.00+135.50+110.00 = 331.50 per square. This is fairly accurate and should allow you to make a buck while remaining competitive in that area - in the midwest you could knock 12% off this and still make a good buck.

6" sub fascia will usually require 8" of aluminum material = 24" x 50ft divided by 8" = 150 LF from a 50 foot roll of trim coil. Cost is .43 per ft. You will use one 12 Ft length of 12" wide soffit material for every 12 ft of 12" overhang. Cost is .58 per ft. Together
it's 1.01 in material per ft. 2.00 per foot for intallation of both. 3.50 per ft total.24" soffits require double material costs and an added 30% in labor(soffit only).

Window and door wraps are very profitable for installers who are good with trim.
They cost from 4 to 12.00 in material each and can add hundreds to the jobs value.
Basic windows = 25.00 each (caulked and flashed)
Mullion caps on picture windows = 5.00 per cap.
Doors = 30.00 each
Garage doors = 50.00 (single) 75.00 (double)

One last tip in this friggen book. Always make sure that the siding which meets at opposite sides of an outside or inside corner, line up to each other correctly. Nothing looks as amaturesh as a finished job with mismatched weather lines. This is one of the reasons why it's advantageous to prep and trim all walls prior to starting the siding.
Sometimes one wall will require a different start point than another for some reason, and then both can be adjusted to meet correctly. Also never subconciously "pull up" on the siding panel ends as you hang them either. This will bow the panel and cause the same misalignment problems. One more thing, leave all of your corners extend at least 3" longer than you think they need to be while preparing - again because of the unknown start point - nothing worse than wasting material and redoing something.

The End.

 

Attaboy, Sinister! You are right on target and gave a fantastic, helpful answer. I hope he appreciates the time and effort you put into your reply.

 

Hey, you guys are smart. I learned alot.

 

Sinister, above and beyond. Thank you all so much for the help. Let me throw a little more info about the project out there. I am looking at about 3200 sq. ft. and the house currently has wood lapping shingles. I know i can install the siding over the existing material, but would I be better off stripping the old shingles first then putting up Tyvek or felt paper? Once again, thanks guys, great info and if there is anymore please keep it coming!

 

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here, please feel free to refute this opinion. I have contracted to re-side 4 complete duplexes and one large house with vinyl siding. Here in Kansas, we have mainly "bat and board" siding. This consists of 8 x 4 sheets of masonite nailed to the wall studs with 1 x 2 strips nailed over the top on 16" centers to hide the seams. When I had the buildings sided, they ripped off all the 1 x 2's and any trim that was not needed. They proceeded to wrap the whole building with styrofoam insulation and put the siding over that. In your case, since your exterior is made up of old cedar shingles, I would think you would want to tear them off to get down to a more smooth, stable surface. The shingles would make it hard to nail the insulation to and I would worry that the vinyl siding might not lay down super smooth. In addition, if they're old and dried up, they may not hold nails very well. Anyway, I know it's more work, but that's my opinion. Good luck!!

 

[QUOTE=sglaine]Myself, I would stay away from vinyl siding.
Your house will rot from the inside out I have seen it time after time. Spend the money and get cedar siding it will also look better too. Good Luck.[/QUO
TE]

How does vinyl siding rot your house from the inside out. If it is done properly there would never be a problem with moisture. Please back this up with some proof because its the first i have heard of it and have put up many many square of siding over the years.

 

Let me chime-in on this. I've been a product designer for over 30 years, with my primary area of experience being building products. I have 11 product and process patents hanging on my wall..10 of which are building products related. That being said...vinyl siding will not cause your house to rot, but all too often the building to be resided has moisture infiltration issues. If they are left uncorrected, and/or if the siding is not properly installed, the building will continue to degrade. Vinyl siding covers-up a lot of sins and sloppy construction, is inexpensive and fast to install. This plus the fact that it requires very little up-keep, makes it the siding of choice for the manufactured housing industry and residing contractors.
You don't have to strip the old siding off if you use a foam-board sheathing or firring strips.
Personally...I don't like vinyl because I think it looks cheap. Even though you have to paint it, a good quality hardboard, cement board or cedar when properly installed, makes for a much nicer installation...IMO.

 

Spend the money and get cedar siding it will also look better too. Good Luck.[/QUO

I agree get some cedar siding here is some pics of what I done to my house check em out.
http://community.webshots.com/script...umID=137765404