what are all of the differences in the 351 cleveland, the 351 windsor, and the 351 modified?



gettler

 

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the windsor is a small block much like the 302.
but has a longer stroke, so intake is wider, also has differant dist
and oil pump. the oil pan is differant. and some brackets.
trans mount is the same
the cleveland is a large block not even worth mentioning.

the 351m-400 i'm not too familar with.

 

I don't understand?? You don't think the cleveland is a good motor or you just have no clue of what it is????

 

I would say he has no clue of what it is, or knows very little about Fords. In production for only 4 years, out of production for 30, and it's still one of the most advanced performance designs to come from the factory from any manufacturer.

 

"I would say he has no clue of what it is"

If you take a look at his other posts, all he knows anything about is the 351W and thinks it's the best engine ever made.

 

are there secret unknown classifications within the "335" moniker? must be new terminology? what's a "large" block? a W has a taller deck height than a C, making it "jumbo", and the M/400 block is much bigger than a W block. colossal? sounds like black olives.

 

I noticed a funny thing about black olives....regardless of size, they all taste the same....

any who....

 

Well to start off with the 351 Windsor is bassed off the 302 with the main difference is the 1/2" longer stroke but is still has the 4" bore like the 289 and 302. This makes the engine height taller so it has its own unique intake manifold that only fits a 351W.
Heads can be interchanged. The valve covers have 6 bolts one them.
The 351 Cleavland has a block of its own. It has staggered valves with 8 bolts to the valve covers. The front of the engine has a housing casted on it for timing chain and gears. The heads on them were two basic kinds, two barrel heads and four barrel heads. The size of the ports and valves were the difference with the 4-barrell's being larger to breath better.
The 351 M shares the same block as the 400. The 351 M is a 400 block with a 351 Windsor crank in it. The 351 M has taller cylinders so it has a wider intake on it than the 351 C. I guess the 351M was a result of the Windsor plant couldn't keep up with a demand or so I've heard. The Cleavelands were designed to have heads that breath better than the FE's and small blocks. I have one of each of these except the 351 C, and they are all great engines. It doesn't take much to wake up a Cleaveland.
Also the 351 Windsor has the same transmission bolt pattern as the 302. The 351M has the bolt pattern as the 429/460. Theres the differences in a nutshell.

 

"The 351 M is a 400 block with a 351 Windsor crank in it."

Just try putting a 351M crank in a Windsor. Or the other way around. Hoo boy.

At the risk of sounding jaded, this information has been posted over and over and over again so many times that it's ridiculous to keep answering it again. Suggestion for the moderators - maybe we need a sticky that simply states the differences in these engines. Then we could just say "please read the sticky."

In any forum, you have to establish a bottom floor of knowledge level that's required even to participate. Stickies work well to dissemble the most basic info - and after you've read that, then ask.

I agree with some of the newbies - the search function here is not all that great. You could get 1000 hits unless you type in a very specific query. Telling them to "search" may not be the answer. Once more:

The 351 Cleveland engine was a medium size, high revving performance engine designed to compete with the Chevy 350. It has canted valves and large, free breathing ports. It was available as a 2V and 4V. The 4V heads had much larger ports. It has the SBF tranny pattern, same as a 302 or 351W.

The 400 (no M!) is based on the 351C and most parts interchange. It has a taller deck, so the intake manifolds don't interchange. However, the 400, which was designed to replace the FE engine series, has a 4 inch stroke, and was designed to power large passenger cars and trucks. It has excellent torque and is lighter than both the FE and the 385 series engines. The heads are nearly identical to the 351C heads - the 351C heads had slightly more compression, due to a slightly smaller combustion chamber. However, the 400 has the big block tranny bolt pattern, like the 429/460.

Beginning in 1972, with new smog laws and a looming gas crisis, both engines got the smog death treatment, with lower compression and fewer performance options. Ford's ambitious plans for the 400 never materialized. The '71 400 was the only one to come from the factory with any decent performance. However, the latent potential was still there.

By 1974, the 351C's demise was certain. The plants making the 351 Windsor would not be able to keep up with the demand for this popular engine, so it was decided to destroke the 400 to 351 cubic inches. The resulting engine would share the Cleveland's family ties, with the same heads and block design. The only difference between a 351M and a 400 is the crankshaft and pistons. Thus, when rebuilding a 351M, the nobrainer is to make it a 400. Just buy a 400 kit.

The 351M/400 engines have gotten an undeserved bad rap. Since there never was a factory hi-po version of either engine, they are remembered as gas guzzling smog dogs.

The fact is that almost every part designed for the 351C will fit a 351M/400 except the intake manifold. Even this can be made to fit with the proper spacer. This opens up a wide selection of aftermarket high performance parts that will wake up any 351M/400.

But why even build a 351M when you only need change the crank and pistons to make it a 400?

For medium horsepower, there is no engine cheaper to build than the 400. All it takes is a decent cam (the factory cam was junk.) The heads are fine as they are. Put on a good 4V manifold and carb, and you have unleashed a monster. Put on headers and it gets better. Do some minor head porting and you can get close to 400 HP.

 

351 windsor is the best engine made.

 

coolmint the 351 cleveland has nothing over the 351 windsor.

and a large block, not really saying it's a bad motor.

 

a cleveland would wipe the floor (did I use that correctly?) with any Windsor... even the Lightning one....

Scroob- looks like your info is the best one in this thread.... this isn't my forum, but I'm sure Bill or Bubba will see it.

 

actually, from looking at the dimensions in the factory manual, a W and M crank are the same except for the snout. same mains, thust and rod journals i think? same balance and flex/fly bolt pattern. there is a guy on the Clevo forum that used a W crank in his FMX 400 block. why? i don't know, might be a forged steel crank? i believe they will physically fit without issue into each others block. just the snout in front of the first main is different.

 

the only cranks that were forged steel from the factory were the Boss motors, and FT series engines...M & W cranks are basically the same, 75-82 anyway... there were some differences prior to that. Basically this means that you can use that stroker crank in your M and make millions of horsepower....