Has any one rebuilt a v-10? I pulled mine out today, it was knocking like a bad rod bearing, but it seems that the front rod is bent and is contacting the block and has worn a groove into the bottom of the cylinder wall. Also, doe any one know how the rod caps are formed? It looks like the rods are one piece and when you take the rod cap bolts off, it fractures the surface between the cap and the rod. The F 250 superduty is a fine truck till major ills strike, does Ford really have a better idea???????

 

Man that sucks! I wish I had some knowledge to share with you but I'm more in the dark than you are.
Not sure if it's still there but I did see a rebuilt V10 with tranny on ebay a few days ago that was at $2000+ at the time.

 

They're no big deal to rebuild, just like the 4.6V8. The conn. rods are scored and broke to create that finish you see. The idea being that the two halves have a unique fit and will not move around. They are ok strength wise. Whenever a 4.6V8 is built for more power Manley forged rods are used as well as forged pistons...

 

Is there a chance that water was sucked into the engine at some time?
that could explain the bent rod.

 

Yup. Fracture splitting.

 

OK bent rods probably due to fuel injector leaking into clyn. fact of physics a liquid will not compress. My biggest problem now is info! Where and who has good literature on the engine guts. I have a Chilton and an Haynes book, but they are lacking on v-10 info. I also have a FoMoCo cd shop mannual coming that I found on E-bay. I may be a dummy but I still can't figure the rod cap issue, how the rod was put on the crank as to not have a gap between the rod and the cap? Are the rods designed to be unrebuildable and new replacement units used? Any help on this issue will be greatly appreciated.

 

Check this out...Triton V10 Engine Rebuild data CD, might be helpful ???

http://v10.spider-van.com/

 

Thanks jhemr, I tried to link to that website today but the vodoo engine would not let me. I will contact them for info. Up date on tear down, #1 clynder is the culprit, piston skirt contacts crank counterbalance and I cannot rotate 360 degrees. You can see wear markes on crank, as the engine was running when I started the rebuild. There was no idication of water in the cylinder, so it must be fuel. Is there a history of injectors weeping fuel into the cylinders? I long for the simple days of straight forward engine removal. These new electronic-fuelinjected engines are not user/shadtree mechanic friendly. However, it it just an internal cumbustion engine and I shall overcome!!!!

 

Most rods are either forged or molded (pressed) in powdered metal and sintered. I don't know what V10 rods are; probably PM. The 'broken' rod is made in one piece, machined at both ends, and then broken at the large end. Bolts are inserted and then the rod is assembled to the piston and pin. This process has been used for decades in 2-stroke engines, especially in outboards. It's a proven process and is used in HP V6 outboard motors running 8-10K rpm. Like Gmsux says, it's to keep the cap from walking. It's also a cost saving idea in that only 1 part needs to be manufactured instead of 2.

Rods usually bend for 1 of 2 reasons: They get pulled apart and contact something like the block, or simply bend due to compression from hydraulic lock. Since yours didn't break apart and was still running, the only logical explanation is hydraulic lock. It's either water, fuel, or oil.

How did the knocking start? Did it start knocking immediately after starting it one morning?

 

Thanks v-10 doubletow for the education on the manufactoring process on the rods. Yes, the rod probably bent upon starting the morning the knock was first detected. I have ruled out water, so fuel or some other malfunction is to blame. As to the repair, are the rods a nonserviceable part, if I choose to do a rebuild? Maybe I will just get a longblock remaned from Jasper or another rebuilder. Any input on remaned engine experience from forum members will be greatly appreciated.

 

I think if you've got it this far you might as well do the rebuild yourself. You certainly seem capable. Besides, you'll save some money and you'll know that the right parts are put in. Rebuilders aren't usually known for using quality parts and labor. The 'broken' rods are definitely reuseable. Take your block, rod/piston assemblies (even the bent one), crank, and heads to a reputable machine shop for inspection and machining. Depending on the miles, you may get by with simply honing the cylinders and reusing the existing pistons.

My son is in this same situation right now with his rice-burnin' Rodeo. Tossed a rod at 100,000 miles (Whatta ya mean I can't rev it to 7 grand?.....My tach goes that high!). There was almost no cylinder or piston wear. 1 rebuilt head, 1 machined crank, 1 new piston & rod, full re-ring kit, hone the cylinders, all top-shelf parts for under $600.

Your block is pretty stout and a small 'dent' at the bottom of the cylinder won't affect anything. Clean up the sharp edges with a die grinder. I can't see yours but you said it was still running, right?

 

I agree with V10DoubleTow about rebuilding yourself. If you can do it, you're way better off. Mine did the very same thing in January (99' 86,000miles). One cold morning it just starded knocking like a big-dog. There was no way I could rebuild it myself and the shop estimated the fix at $3000. I opted to go with a motorcraft reman engine with 3yr/36k warranty....$5000 installed.

Ford was the only place I found that would even talk about rebuilding. I probably talked to 10 independent shops that wouldn't touch it.

Good Luck!

 

I have heard of a couple rebuilds using forged Manley rods. Anyone know anything about this? Maybe part numbers?

 

Home rebuilds can be done, but more often than you may believe, they don't work out very well unless you build engines for a living.

I've been around high perf. ford engines for many years and have seen a lot of mistakes made by home builders and even so called experts. I don't reccomend it at all unless you truly have builders experience unless it is not important the engine survive long term.

Typically most of the cost in a rebuild is in the machining and parts, assembly usually runs around $500 for most normal V type engines, not very much considering the cost of the project at hand. With the shop doing the assembly, you get the benefit of warranty (if they are reputable) If you assemble it and something goes wrong, you are left with the expense of your mistake.

No rod that is bent can be re-used and only a qualified machinist should determine what can and cannot be re-used. You will be able to buy one rod however and have the assembly re-balanced. If the block damage is minor it will be smoothed.

Mod motors are pretty straightforward and are designed quite well, but there are things about them that are very unique that if done improperly can result in another bad motor. Of particular challenge are the chain tensioners, cam timing, and valvetrain, This is where most mistakes are made with mod motors. It takes special sevice tools and a lot of skill to set them up proprly. at least the V10 is a SOHC motor the mustang cobra's are DOHC and a real ***** to setup.

My .02

 

Thanks for the help doubletow and gmsux and all the others for input on this item. Yes the engine was still running and the rod caps and bearings I looked at were not visably worn or unusual for an engine with 116000 miles. I will tear down further this week and keep the forum posted on progress. One question I have, can you bench test the injector modules individually or must they be tested as a complete unit? Thanks for the help !