Iraqi's have a Constitution!
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Elder User
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From: Buffalo, Minnesota
Iraqi's have a Constitution!
Iraqi's have free speech, due process and eleven other spelled-out rights. Wow! When it was announced the governing council stood and applauded.
The sticking point - religion - was deftly handled by Paul Bremer. This is a fine development.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040301/D811K9D81.html
The sticking point - religion - was deftly handled by Paul Bremer. This is a fine development.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040301/D811K9D81.html
Postmaster
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From: Nevada
Re: Iraqi's have a Constitution!
I read it as the area of religion was not handled, but included as a source, not the principle source of legislation. Bremer's former statements were adamant that Islamic Law would have no voice in legislation.
The Kurd issue was shelved, the future government will be federalist in nature and the charter is considered temporary, not binding, and 'hopefully' to be used as a basis for Iraq's constitution.
Aside from announcing that we'll be opening the world's largest embassy in Baghdad, which to me says converting the 4-square mile US security Green Zone in downtown Baghdad into sovereign US Territory (which will shift those costs from military to state department accounting), I didn't see any changes in the status quo other than Bremer backing down. To me, it looks like the clerics played some big cards.
The Kurd issue was shelved, the future government will be federalist in nature and the charter is considered temporary, not binding, and 'hopefully' to be used as a basis for Iraq's constitution.
Aside from announcing that we'll be opening the world's largest embassy in Baghdad, which to me says converting the 4-square mile US security Green Zone in downtown Baghdad into sovereign US Territory (which will shift those costs from military to state department accounting), I didn't see any changes in the status quo other than Bremer backing down. To me, it looks like the clerics played some big cards.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: NE Texas
Everything is Red around here and we know and understand that. Whether we respect that or not is up to US, a foreigner. Being Red is a key factor because everything has always been Red, but Red can’t do anything here. You have no power here, now. But you can be a part of Yellow and Green. WE can strike a balance between the role of Red and the bill of individual rights and democratic principles WE have brought with us. Since WE have to decide what kind of country WE want Iraq to be (once the formal occupation ends and sovereignty returns) WE have to come to some agreement on the issues “that have been presented to us”. Forget those issues that you have, for they have not been properly “presented to us”. The draft charter will recognize Red as one source of legislation rather than the only source, and gives autonomy to the Yellowish minority for now. Green is under consideration since they are so close to Red. Is that not clear to you? Cannot you not see the resemblance? Of course, WE don’t really care if you see the similitude or not, WE can. Your religion will not, in anyway, become a part of this new nation. Blah-blah-blah.
Should be interesting.
Politics – I ought to be ashamed!
Should be interesting.
Politics – I ought to be ashamed!
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From: Nevada
Originally posted by Big Orn
Should be interesting.
Should be interesting.
Those 100,000 troops will have to be there for a long, long time to prevent the inevitable civil war. Maybe we're just a different fist? That'll be fun.
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From: Buffalo, Minnesota
Well, I spoke too soon. The constitution is now on hold, due to about five Shiites who are taking exception to not having enough religious clout written into the document. I don't know enough about Iraqi culture to make predictions, but I hope this roadblock doesn't succeed. This constitution must have a secular outlook for the Iraqis to have any chance of joining the human race.
Post Fiend
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From: Central Kali
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Buffalo, Minnesota
Hi Mike,
They sure do now without a constitution. I can't imagine anyone attempting a prohibition. Iraqis like their guns. What would a wedding be without them?
regards
They sure do now without a constitution. I can't imagine anyone attempting a prohibition. Iraqis like their guns. What would a wedding be without them?
regards
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Postmaster
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From: Nevada
Originally posted by billsco
Well, I spoke too soon. The constitution is now on hold, due to about five Shiites who are taking exception to not having enough religious clout written into the document. I don't know enough about Iraqi culture to make predictions, but I hope this roadblock doesn't succeed. This constitution must have a secular outlook for the Iraqis to have any chance of joining the human race.
Well, I spoke too soon. The constitution is now on hold, due to about five Shiites who are taking exception to not having enough religious clout written into the document. I don't know enough about Iraqi culture to make predictions, but I hope this roadblock doesn't succeed. This constitution must have a secular outlook for the Iraqis to have any chance of joining the human race.
Not all people consider our system of government joining the human race. To followers of Islam, Islamic Law certainly takes precedent over anything written by Christians. Whether or not they're just giving us lip service to get out from under our heavy foot remains to be seen.
To think that many centuries of history, culture and a belief system can be easily changed with a few signatures on a document, especially one shoved down the throat of a populace by an occupying army, seems a little naive. But that's politics.
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: The County
I think anything we can get accomplished over there at this point is good news.Getting all those tribes to even speak to each other is a big step.They have been fighting amongst themselves for hundreds of years.It's a first step,but we are a long way off from pulling our troops out.I look for the U.S. to establish a military base over there for future conflicts which I'm sure are going to take place.The price of democracy for them will come out of our pockets for a long time to come.It sounds like nation building to me.IMO.
Posting Guru
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From: Lenexa, KS
I saw on the morning news that we're shipping 50 people from the Justice Department to Iraq to help the Iraqi's build a case against Saddam Hussein. What procedure are we going to use to try him and who exactly will be judging him? I would assume we're letting the Iraqi's try their former dictator???!!!??? Once again, the US taxpayer gets to help with the costs.
Postmaster
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From: Nevada
Originally posted by jskufan
I saw on the morning news that we're shipping 50 people from the Justice Department to Iraq to help the Iraqi's build a case against Saddam Hussein. What procedure are we going to use to try him and who exactly will be judging him? I would assume we're letting the Iraqi's try their former dictator???!!!??? Once again, the US taxpayer gets to help with the costs.
I saw on the morning news that we're shipping 50 people from the Justice Department to Iraq to help the Iraqi's build a case against Saddam Hussein. What procedure are we going to use to try him and who exactly will be judging him? I would assume we're letting the Iraqi's try their former dictator???!!!??? Once again, the US taxpayer gets to help with the costs.