Watkins Glen - a beautiful race course. I remember watching D Jags, Mini Coopers and little Coventry Climax powered specials roar around that tough track - great racing.
Dono

 

All the drivers at the Winston Cup level are very talented drivers.
I build Nascar Asphalt Modifieds for a living, but I haven't watched a race since Big E died. Even before that I may have watched one or two races a season. IMO, Nascar Winston Cup is getting a little to much like Wrestling and I have better things to do on a Sunday.
Of course all the glam and glitter is great for Nascar and it's drivers, with the huge paydays they deserve, but I just can't relate to it anymore.
At one time, it was very possible for a "average Joe" to get to that level, at least for one or two races in the season, but now it is so far out of reach financially,I have lost all interest in racing at that level.

Go support you local race tracks, help out the " grass roots" racers,
if you can, sponsor a car for a season or even for one race.
These guys put in hours and hours a week and spend their weeks pay on their cars just to race on a Friday or Saturday night.
They put on a great show, and you can be sure they are their for the love of racing and not the payday.

mY .02

Remember, it's only cheating if you get caught!

 

>What form of racing or sports is not for "entertainment
>only"?

I think what he was saying was that NASCAR alters the races in order to look good on television, even if it may change the outcome. Basically it's a lot like WWF - the actual sport is secondary to the marketing, and if the sport has to suffer in order to get more viewers (and more advertising dollars) then they are more than willing to make that sacrifice. NASCAR hasn't been about finding out who is the best driver for some years now - now it's about trying to attact as many fans as possible and make money. Some other professional sports aren't much better...it seems like if you want to see pure competition you have to go to the amateur level, or at least a level where the money and advertising plays a much smaller role.

However, I'm not saying the outcome is entirely staged like it is in professional wrestling - though I wouldn't be all that surprised if it was. I know that some of the same marketing people handle both NASCAR and WWF, and I've heard many times that much of the fighting and competition between drivers is just staged for the benefit of the audience. Same thing goes with the action on the track - they found that viewers wanted to see a lot of contact between cars, close action, and crashes...so they managed the sport to produce those results. This is why you'll see a caution when the cars get separated (to bunch the cars back together), and why the cars are micro-managed in every detail so nobody really has any big advantage. They'll do whatever it takes to look good on TV, because more viewers mean more advertising (and sponsor) dollars.

In a bit of bitter irony, that's a large part of the reason Earnhardt was killed - because due to the desires of NASCAR fans, the races were purposely managed to be more dangerous than they otherwise would be. So, in an indirect way NASCAR fans are partially responsible for Earnhardt's death - because the inherent danger of the sport had been increased in response to their wishes. Perhaps most fans will say that *they* don't like to see crashes, but their marketing people discovered that the average fan really did - whether they actually admitted it or not. Even if they don't like to see crashes, they certainly like to see the cars bunched together with some contact, which has the same result. Closer contact = more crashes = more viewers = more money.

Personally, my feelings are that racing and most other sports are generally fun to do and not that much fun to watch - I rarely watch it on TV, as the only kind I might watch is the World Rally Championship series but I can't get that as cable doesn't run this far out into the country and I'm too cheap to buy a dish. I prefer racing on dirt and gravel - that's what I used to do back when I did that sort of thing - and racing that's done on normal roads and streets. If I was going to watch hard-surface racing, it'd probably be GP.

LK

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 10-Jun-02 AT 10:45 AM (EST)]Well, by now, everyone should know my OPINION of Nascar, but being a Nancy, I guess my opinion doesn't really matter.

However, what dono missed about what Wiz said is this-you put the word "understand" in all capitals, which most people will interpret to be a dig at those of us that don't like Nascar. Just because someone doesn't like something doesn't mean they don't understand it, they just don't like it. It should have just read "good reading for those that love auto racing". No digs, no insults, nothing misunderstood, nothing to debate.

 

>Yea, nascar used to be fun when cars looked a bit like real
>cars(you could tell them a part).Where do they get off
>calling them stock cars? Hav'nt seen any V-8,2 door,4speed,
>carbed cars like any of those STOCK cars.And the golden boys
>as in Earnhart are are punks.Wear the hat backwards,talk the
>jive lingo and generally think they owe you because your
>daddy blocked and cheated got killed and became some sort of
>god.Let a Ford or Dodge win a few and watch the rule
>changes.Let a G.M. punk cheat and everything is A O.K.Got to
>give the
>masses(tickets,programs,parking,shirts,hats,beer, lots of
>beer)what they pay for. Naw,give me Drag Racing instead.

How would you like it if someone made the same comment about you and your father. That comment was and still is uncalled for and never will be called for. I think Jr. is a little cocky, but get over it, it doesn't affect your life, so why should it matter. Dale Earnhardt Sr. was a talented driver and a good man (I have met him). I am around the same age as Dale Jr. and I don't wear my hat backwards and I talk a little like he does, but does that make me a punk. Quit the name calling and grow up.

 

well said 460. that comment was compleatly uncalled for. the man was a great driver and blocking is part of the sport. alot of the cars now have little "blocking" mirrors so to say that blocking is cheating is just plain stupid. also, how else do you keep another car behind you? YOU BLOCK THEM! throughout NASCAR history there have been classic duels during a race where both cars blocked and traded paint all the way to the line AND AFTER!

as for races being fixed.......why would the powers that be in nascar put sterling marlin ahead in the points? all the talk in nascar lately is about the "young guns" why wouldnt they put jr., newman, atwood, j johnson, ect...ect in front? and if they throw a yellow to bunch the feild up, i dont have a problem with that. the better car will and should win the race right? so whoever is leading at the time of the caution should still win. i say this as a Ricky Rudd #28 fan. he has been leading the race and in position to win for the last two weeks only to blow a tire or loose a tire with just a handfull of laps to go. did nascar blow his tire or not tighten the lugs all the way? nope. dale jarret who won on sunday said that he wouldnt have been able to catch ricky had he not blown the tire. how is that fixed?

the wrecks.......no body wants to see a wreck where somebody gets hurt. 97% of the time the driver walks away. half of the excitement of auto racing is the posability of an accident. all those cars, in any motorsport, so close toghether and going so fast.......something is bound to happen. its like football, you tune into the game to root for your team but you love to see those crushing hits and watch the guys rough eachother up. you dont watch the game hoping to see the guys play nice and hug eachother. would you watch flag or touch football on tv? i doubt it. thats why soccer will never be a big draw on tv.......its boreing! we love hard hitting high adrenaline sports in this country.

 

i find nascar dull. not my kinda thing like ken asid. altho i do love ralley racing, tractor pulls, monster trucks, and drag racing wither funny or alchoahol cars. (those long pointy skinny cars.)

 

How do I feel about this ?
Glad you asked !

When it comes to "Nicecar"(nascar)

I prefer the " The Thrill of Victory" not the agony of defeat invloved in these three sports:

The Soapbox Derby
Bumper Cars
Daily Driving on the streets of Calgary.

These events can provide anyone with that close-up in you face
Vehicular Bang-a-side.






[font color=red]Dennis

Calgary,Alberta,Canada[/font]


[link:www.ford-trucks.com/guidelines.html|FTEModerator]

http://www.clubfte.com/users/mil1ion/Minimorleytruck.JPG

http://www.clubfte.com/users/mil1ion/Mil1ion.html

[font color=red]
Please Don't Ask Me Any Tough Questions,
"I'm Saving My Memory For When I Develop Alzheimer's" [/font]

[font color=blue]78 F-150 429CJ,Silver,Explorer Pkg.
[/font]

 

Mick460 - I agree, motorcross is good stuff. Back when I did it it was called TT racing (Tourist Trophy)and the bikes weren't near as fast as they are now.
Dono

 

Icelander -

I wasn't saying that NASCAR races were "fixed", in fact I actually mentioned in the post that I wasn't trying to say that. I said I wasn't saying it...or something like that. However, I do believe they are managed in order to make them seem more exciting - by purposely bunching the cars together, and regulating them down to every tiny little detail so that nobody really has any clear-cut advantage over anyone else or any liberty with the chassis. If anyone does have an advantage, they quickly find some way to take it away - by modifying the aerodynamics, or the engine, or whatever.

Now, in theory there's nothing wrong with making the sport competitive by making the playing field as level as possible...because it isn't as much fun to watch a sport where one person completely dominates everyone else, and if people don't watch then NASCAR doesn't draw advertisers and sponsors. However, the problem is that once you do that then the sport becomes more of a game of chance than a test of skill. The best driver is no longer the one that wins the race, because the outcome is determined by a thousand little factors - many of which the driver and his crew really have no control over. For example, the manufacturing tolerances of the tires, or the fact that 20% more bugs got in the air filter and there was a tiny bit less airflow...every little thing becomes a factor. The more regulations and restrictions they put on the sport to level the playing field, the greater the role luck plays and the smaller the role skill plays.

This is of course a different issue than the issue of how they handle their public relations - letting some drivers get away with more than others, or calling some of them cheaters while saying that others simply made a mistake, or creating the rumor (or the appearance) that certain drivers hate each other and have a bitter rivalry. A lot of that is put on for show, and I'm pretty sure the NASCAR folks know exactly what they are doing even when it seems like they don't - they are manipulating various situations in order to get as much publicity and as many viewers as possible. Some people would think this was a bad thing, some a good thing, and some probably really don't care.

Now that I've probably managed to annoy all the NASCAR fans, I think I'd better end the post...but I do want to add that I don't really think NASCAR is planting little explosive charges in the tires in order to blow them out.

LK

 

all you idiots that think racing is fixed should try a few laps at speed and see if you have what it takes. personaly, i have no plans to drive at 190+ in heavy traffic. that i will leave for the professionals. i just fix what breaks and enjoy the race.

 

I asked once, this time I am not asking:

The next person to call someone stupid, an idiot, whatever, will be told to leave. This thread is locked. If anyone tries to resurrect it in another thread, they'll be told to leave.