Hi Rich,
Like I said, respectfully, I disagree. I have no intentions of arguing with you or anyone on this topic. Again, I too have had first hand experience with both. The torque advantage you state for the PSD is more impressive on paper than in real life; at least as far as I have found. This past summer I was towing 15K with the V10. On the same hill, the PSD with the same load crested the hill a full 6 mph SLOWER than the V10. A friend of mine tried it with his 2001 PSD and found the same thing. Again, yes torque turns the wheels but horsepower causes the speed. Why do you think that those high torque, low horsepowered engines(old Cummins for example) pull the heavy loads so slow. Torque is more pertinent to towing than horsepower, but you need BOTH if you want power. It is the combination of both horsepower and torque that allows one to creast a hill at speed. Of course if you juice up the PSD, the diesel would win hands down.

I live in a very mountainous area; winters are REALLY cold. So I will stand behind my earlier statements. And if the new legislation does come into effect(2006), you will see a dramatic rise in the price of diesel fuel do to refining costs. There goes the fuel milage advantage of the PSD.

I will agree with your statement regarding the exhaust brake. However, the V10 will not need it as often because of its back pressure. But, the extra hold back would be REAL handy on those long downhills.

Again, no disrespect, but my experience does not coincide with yours. Just a different viewpoint. At least we can BOTH tow a load in style compared to those 'other' brands

Tim

 

I should stay out of this but
I prefer the diesel the v-10 ive had both , did the same things with both,. there are some hills niether one was faster. there are some on the interstate that the PSD is superior on. Ive never gotten below 12.6 mpg from the PSD no matter what was behind it. My v-10 was lucky to see 12.6 mpg on a good day going down hill.my real life #s were 10 empty and 8 if i pulled real hard.
yes the diesel was more money But I bought a leftover and saved the 4500 and then some.
the v-10 after 3 yrs and 25k miles had lost a value of almost $10,000 from the sticker.
my only mistake with the diesel is that I didnt buy it in 99 when i bought the v-10.
I plan on keeping this truck form a long time . im more worried about the body than the powertrain.
I also know a 8100 chevy will out pull both the psd and the v-10

 

From a purely financial perspective, the PSD is hard to justify for most people. I've run the numbers and Trailer Life magazine did a good comparison a couple years ago. We both came up with at least 100,000 miles break-even on the upfront cost of the diesel. In my case, it's more like 180,000 miles because here in south Seattle the diesel always costs more than regular unleaded. I've never kept a vehicle for 180,000 miles! BTW, 100,000 miles is the first tune-up on the V10.

There are other factors to consider. If I was towing in the mountains, I'd want the turbo to keep the performance in that thin air. If I wanted the ego boost of having a "real" truck engine, I'd get the oil burner. If I wanted to hop up my engine for serious towing performance, I'd get the diesel and chip it.

----------------------------------------
2000 F350 CC DRW Lariat 4x4 LWB 4R100 V10 4.30ls with Torklift tie-downs/Superhitch and Rancho RS9000 and Ride-Rite air springs.
1998 Alpenlite Pendelton 11'10" Slide-in camper with all options.

 

Hey Red 99'
Where did you get your info on the 8.1L GM out pulling both the Ford V10 and the PSD? Popular Mechanics did an across country test. The 8.1L GM did not look that impressive to me. Moreover, my relative that works at GM has not had too many positve things to say about the 8.1L. When I test drove one for a friend of mine, I must say that the rumble from the exhaust note is alot better than the V10! But other than that, I was not that impressed. My V10 with 4.30 gears had way more power off the line than the 8.1L with 4.10 gears. I hope that you are not considering the GM---I had respect for you, though I enjoy teasing you alot
Tim

 

I would not even consider a GM
as for the 8.1 out pulling the psd
the gm is a 01 2500 hd 8.1 allison, extended cab, short bed 4x4
the PSD is a 00 250 psd 6 speed, 4x4 super cab, short bed
they were both pulling about 10000 of gooseneck trailer with pulling tractors on them.
going up the hill the gm passed the psd without a problem.
on the other hand the gm gets 8-10 mpg vs the psd 10-12

 

I agree on most of what you said but would like to add my humble views. Please remember like all views here these are only my personal findings. The diesel is too hard to live with if you're not working it. It is very sluggish when compared to the V10 when both are empty and only really starts to gain an advantage at altitude or +10K loads. The diesel oil changes are not any more or less frequent than a V10. They're just $30-$40 a pop more when due. My wife nearly threw up after a 20 mile test drive in a PSD because of the low frequency hum or vibration, we're not sure which but she was feeling sick. The smell that some find to be enjoyable is very objectionable to me. The noise to me is very annoying.(The V10 doesn't dazzle me either but it is much less intrusive)

Considering the '99 V10 was down on power compared to the '00 and up it still matched the PSD in a TRAILER LIFE test with trailers and up a grade. The '00 and up have 35 horses more!!

As far as losing 10K off sticker in 3 years I figure that's more like 6K depreciation in 3 years due to the fact that NOBODY pays sticker for a Ford truck (I got my '01 for $1700 UNDER invoice) Heck, you said you saved $4500 off the top for the diesel, you don't think in 3 years it will be worth another 4-5K less???

To sum it up, I LOVE my 4.30LSD V10 Crew Cab and FOR ME it was a much better choice than the diesel. If I was pulling 12K through the Rockies I may have re-thought it except I'm pretty sure the wife would have nixed it either way. My MPG has been 10 running around and a best of 14 at a steady 70-75.

I also considered the 8.1/Allison. Seat of the pants there was no difference. I believe the Allison and the 8.1 torque will take over after a certain point just like the TRUCK TREND article stated. Up a grade with a trailer it pulled the V10 by 3 seconds. 3 seconds wasn't worth the $5-6K difference it would have cost me. 8-10 MPG is normal for the 8.1, I don't believe pulling 10K HARD it gets anywhere near that IMHO!!!!

 

I have read everybodys pro and cons on gas and diesel I did not want to get involved in a contest but i had the same problem as you so I sought a higher power I talked to mechanics that work on diesels and found out some intresting facts ,most diesels are not suited for town driving at all the lugging around causes carbon build up more so than normal the fuel is another factor must be conditoned in the winter to pevent gelling and if it does gel you have magor prolems the service interval for a diesel is 6000 miles hyway driving if it is drove around town the recommened service is 3000 miles at 75.00 a pop that is preety expensive if you do it yoursef you may save some money but you have 16 qts of oil to dispose of so I optied for the V-10, it pulls as well as the diesel does , for most any thing and the less exspense hope this has helped you

SVO

 

I too am at this stage. Your decision is much like mine. My primary purpose is for a driver but the ocassional towing duties will happen with a car trailer and boat. I decided to go the route of gas mileage for the daily driver. My engine is the 5.4 v-8, w/mans. trans and a 3.73 limited slip rear end. The designation for your truck seems to be outweighted by the towing of a 5th wheel. You should probably concetrate on rigging a truck for that purpose and that would be the PSD. Thats simply an awesome truck to drive whether you're towing or not! But thats what I'ld do provided the capital is there, big bucks to through down for the PSD. I will say this for my own $.02, I looked at the Ram 2500s 5.9 v-8 and the comments, complaints and TSBs posted are incredible. With sooo many on the road I never would've thought so many people hated their trucks as much as I've read and heard. Pays to shop hard!!

 

WOW!!

$75 for an oil change.??? Bring them over. I can change mine, (all 16 and the filter) for $35. For the extra $40 I'll even put some grease in all 4 zerks for ya!!

First: The v-10 cost extra also. so the difference is less than the $4500 for the diesel.
2nd: my 01 PSD 4x4 6 speed gets 20/21 MPG. no V-10 can come close to that! I will recover the extra cost of the diesel
inside 30,000 miles.

As far as the extra noise. talk to some of the kids who play thier music (sic) so it can be herd a county or two away. There is a product out called "Road Kill" The only people who can here my truck running are on the outside.

We can kick this around till were all blue in the face. Blue Oval that is.

Go get one, if you don't like, it trade it in for the other one. I'll still give you a thumbs up when we pass.
of corse I'll be laffing when I pass you and your V-10 while pulling a trailer up a steep hill. I'll only chuckle a little bit when I pass twice as many gas stations as you. We all get it in the end.

America's Great. Thank you all for making it that way :-)

 

It's great that everyone is so passionate over their trucks. I have a V-10, a buddy at work has a PSD. They do us good. Some like blondes and some like brunettes. They all do the job!
Lots of comments about pulling up hills, though. Unless it's a regular thing, why worry? If it's infrequent, rent or borrow. The rest of the time driving is for pleasure...or at least it should be.

 

I'll gladly take the 5 hp cut with the diesel rather than the 100 ft lbs torque cut with the v-10. Besides, who buys a PSD and leaves it stock? No one, they all add a chip, exhaust brake, and new exhaust, at least if they are using to pull any type of load.

My humble opinion and life experiences.

-Rich

 

Hi Rich,

Correct me if I am wrong but is the 2001 and 2002 PSD Hp 250 with the auto and 275 Hp with the Six speed? If so, then the difference between the 2001/2 PSD and the V10 would be between 35-60 HP, depending on transmission, in favor of the V10. Also the V10 would lose between 80-95 Lbs Ft. As such, these specs do not tell the whole story. Specifications may give bragging rights to those who would know no better; but reality can differ. What about gear ratios? Gear ratios are directly related to torque, are they not? As such, 4.30 has a HUGE advantage over the 3.73;
4.3 : 3.73 to be exact. Now relate the figure with the flywheel figures. Moreover, how much more does the PSD weigh compared to the V10? Would it not take more power to move the PSD than the V10? What about the reciprocating mass advantage on the SOHC V10 which causes a very flat albeit high torque curve?

You say that you have experience with both in real life; but so do many other posters on this site. The original poster wanted pertinent information on making an educated decision for either the PSD or the V10. As such, I would never claim the the V10 has great fuel milage-it does not. But one must consider ALL the information. How do you think the 2006 CARB mandate on diesel fuel will affect your PSD? What about the sluggish performance? Or as another poster stated, it is hard on diesels to be driven for short drives? Cold starts and diesel geling? All true.

Again, power is both HP and Torque; simple Law of Physics. But there are many factors to weigh in. One must understand that the dynamics of the diesel engine are very different from gas engines. As such, Torque specs do not tell the whole story.

Just my humbled, real-life, experienced opinion.

Respectfully,
Tim

 

I'm a paramedic, and have been for about 10 years now. And in those 10 years, I have taken careful note of something. And that something is: 1) Virtually every ambulance, and the vast majority of police vehicles on the road is a Ford!!! 2) Overwhelmingly, the engine of choice in an ambulance today is a PSD. These things get ABUSED. They get driven VERY HARD for short trips in town and out, sometimes 1/2 a mile, sometimes 300 at a stretch. The UNLOADED weight of a Type III ambulance is about 12,000lbs. Add crew members and equipment and I'll bet we're hauling 14,000lbs around at sometimes 100mph. Yet they keep on ticking. Carbon buildup may be a problem, or it may not. I'm just saying that I have never seen it cause any trouble, despite the fact that my service has 6 units, all with PSDs, most with the neighborhood of 200,000 miles on them (one has 256,000!!) These are not nice miles. So, based on that experience, and that experience alone, I agreed to sweep and mop the floor and take out the trash and rub her feet, etc. etc., and my wife agreed to let me buy my PSD. Long and short of it is that you will be well-served with any Ford product. I like the diesel because of my experience with them. I also own 2 other trucks, both Ford gas burners. Like them too. The point is that all have their strengths and their weaknesses. I wouldn't let 2 or 3 seconds difference in uphill towing times sway me one way or the other. Get in one, crank it up. Smell the smells. Hear the sounds. Decide for yourself which feels right. Enjoy yourself. You're about to be the envy of every man you pass while he's driving his wife and kids around in a minivan!!!

Rotorhead

 

Music to my ears, Rotorhead!

Where's all those Cummins and Duracrap ambulances at???

 

Great post Rotorhead! I have nothing against the PSD--I have driven many. Both the V10 and the PSD have their own pro's and con's. Either one leaves the competition behind!

Now about rubbing the wife's feet...Don't say that too loud, my wife might hear!!

Cheers!

Tim