One of the sales guys has a used Bulleydog propane system he is going to bring me tomorrow. It's a complete system, including a 15 gallon or so tank. Are they fairly easy to install?? Is it ok to instal the tank inside the wheel well on the frame?? How long can I expect the propane to last in that size tank. I'm going to run it on a lighter setting because I don't want to risk any damage, mainly looking for some power and hopefully mileage gains. What would be a good price to pay for the system?? He doesn't know what he wants for it yet.

 

A 15 gallon tank does not last real long. It all depends on how much you use it. A 15 gal. tank is the size of a BBQ tank. If it is that same style tank you will most likely not be able to mount it in a wheel well or frame due to the size is too big to hide in a wheel well and they do not flow when on their side (frame mount) due to the "new" anti spill valve the new tanks have. So it needs to be mounted upright. There are forklift style tanks that can be mounted on the side and they have a much larger capacity. As far as mileage gains I think this is a bit of a myth. The reason I say this is you must figure in the cost of the Propane gas and the cost of the Propane system into your fuel costs. So you can see you are not just figuring in the cost of diesel. Will the mpg's go up? yes but you are burning two fuels not just one. and mpg only looks at the amount of diesel used not diesel/propane used per mile. If you do not have a pyrometer it is a must have with propane cuz it will raise your EGT's. How much $ depends on what system and its condition. Look on Bully dogs website to get an idea of what the kit should include and what retail $ is. I would also recommend talking to you chip mfg and seed if they would recommend a new program for running propane. I do not mean to come off as a anti-propane activist, of which I am not. I just want you to know what you are getting into, so you can make an informed decision. Good luck.

 

Gas Grill tank is 20 lbs. or about 4.3 gallons!

 

I disagree with some of the comments that have been made on this thread, but time doesn't permit me to go into detail. I will either respond later today, or you can call me on my cell after 11am PDT at 253-315-1222.
Go ahead and start getting excited about the system.
Scott.

 

Quad, Any words of wisdom on doing the install?? How do you know if you have too much propane or if it's set correctly? Should I run it all the time or just when I really need the extra power? Should I have the tank filled before I install it or after?
I'll hopefully get the system today or tomorrow and would like to install it this weekend if the weather cooperates.

 

JMorton- I've done a considerable amount of research on propane systems in general, and about certain brands in particular. First, an overview of propane as an auxiliary fuel in diesels: Used in the proper amount, propane can/will improve power output and/or fuel economy. It is introduced into the combustion chamber prior to the firing of the injector, so the propane starts to pre-burn immediately before the diesel ignites. If used at the the maximum level, it can increase rear wheel horsepower by 100hp, sometimes more. If used sparingly, it will improve fuel economy. What I mean by that, is it will reduce the amount of diesel fuel you burn enough to pay for the propane being used. Many report an increase in mpg of up to 2mpg, though many others say the fuel cost is a break-even, but they now have 50 additional horsepower to use. Once the system is on your truck, I can help you adjust it to meet your goals.
Propane systems come in two general categories, liquid draw and vapor draw systems. The most common of the liquid draw systems is Bully Dog. The most common of the vapor systems is Powershot2000. There are similarities, and differences. Since you're specifically interested in the Bully Dog, let's start there. You will be storing the propane in a liquid tank, and the propane drawn from the tank will be in liquid form. There is an apparatus, which is part of the system, that will vaporize the liquid propane, and make it suitable for injection into the airstream of the intake. Safety precautions are built into the system, to prevent liquid propane from entering the engine. You will have one or more orifices, (orifi?) which will be the entering point of the propane. The point at which the propane is injected will be boost activated, and is adjustable. For example, lets' say you have two orifices, and you set one to come on at 5psi boost, and the other to come on at 10psi boost. Your system can be activated at all times the engine is running, but no propane will be used until your boost hits 5psi. As long as you're between 5 and 10psi, you will have the same amount of propane being introduced to the engine. Once the boost exceeds 10psi, the other orifice will allow additional propane to be injected. If the boost drops down below 10psi, the second orifice will shut off, and you will be running on only the first one. This is a "stepped" system. You will see no more propane at 9psi than at 5psi, since that's where we've hypothetically set the step. High performance versions of the Bully Dog system could have multiple orifices, and multiple steps, increasing the amount of propane injected all the way to max boost.
A vapor system like the Powershot2000 stores the propane in the tank as a liquid, but only the vapor from the top of the tank is drawn out, so it's referred to as a vapor draw system. Unlike a stepped system, the Powershot2000 is a proportional system. You set the boost "trigger" at which you want the propane to start to flow, and as you boost rises above this level, the flow of propane will increase as well. One orifice is all that is needed with this system. You increase the flow of propane through two adjustments: the "trigger", or when it starts to flow, and the flow rate. The flow rate controls the "ramping up" of the propane flow, so higher boost levels don't draw excessive amounts of propane.
Adjustment of the flow of propane, on either system, is limited by predetonation, where the propane actually ignites completely before the diesel fuel is introduced into the combustion chamber. It is heard as a very loud pinging, similar to a gasser, but much louder. It must be avoided at all costs, as this is when internal damage to the engine can occur. The idea is to get the system installed properly and safely, mounting the tank while it's empty. It's not only safer, it's a lot lighter that way. Once the tank is installed and filled, and all the connections and installation instructions from the system have been double checked, start by turning the flow down to a very low setting, and take the truck for a spin. As your boost rises, you'll feel more power. If you can accelerate hard, and hit max boost without predetonation, you can safely turn the flow up in small increments until the first signs of predetonation are found. Back out of the throttle, and turn the flow down enough to make you feel safe, and enjoy the new found power. At this setting, you'll be getting maximum output from the system, though you won't be optimizing economy. I keep my system tuned to the very edge of safety, avoiding predetonation, but also milking every drop of hp out of it that I can. To optimize economy, you'd want to set the trigger to start flowing propane at a level that will result in about 1/3 maximum power. You'll find that 30 extra horsepower feels pretty good.
Since I put my system on, I've kept an Excel spreadsheet of propane cost and the affect it's had on overall fuel costs. In my case, tuning my system for maximum power, I'm seeing a cost per mile for propane at $.005. Or, to put it another way, for every 200 miles of driving, the propane is costing me $1.00. Not bad for an additional 100hp.
I recommend that you think the installation through, and get the tank mounted safely. Take the time to do it right. Then, once you've got the system on the truck, read about adjusting the system before trying to use it.
I've already given you my cell number. Don't be afraid to use it.
Scott.

 

How long have you had your system installed?? My biggest concern in engine durability. I don't plan on cranking it up as high as I can, just a good solid increase in power. How has it effected your EGT's?

 

Sorry, I left EGT's out of my "novel." Propane burns cleaner and cooler than diesel, so at a given hp level, you'd run cooler using propane than running straight diesel. The problem is, since you can produce so much more power with propane, you don't merely pull the hill at 55mph any more, now you do it at 70mph, because you can. You'll find that the truck runs cleaner, smoking less with propane, too.
I've had my system on since last spring. I started doing my homework on the subject several months before that.

 

Sounds like a no brainer as long as I keep the propane flow realistic and not go crazy. All the diesel guys and Powerstroke reps here at work keep telling me not to try it unless I have a spare engine lying around.
Should I wait until I get my exhaust done or do it with the stock exhaust? I do have a 3" downpipe but stock from the cat back.

 

You can run it with a stock exhaust, but you'll probably need to turn it down slightly from where you could have it with an aftermarket exhaust.
Propane is a potentially dangerous thing, and some people have ruined their engines by turning it up too much, and wound up bending rods, etc. If you approach it from a conservative angle, you'll wonder why nobody builds them like this from the factory.

 

I'm ready, hopefully I'll get the system tomorrow and get it installed this weekend. Thanks for all of your input. I did go to Bully Dog's website and download the install instructions. Looks pretty simple. Looks like the hardest part will be mounting the tank.
Thanks again!

 

On my system, mounting the tanks was 3/4 of the work. Good luck, and let me know if anything comes up.
Scott.

 

Quad, out of courisosity, have you ran your truck on a dyno? with all the cool mods on your truck I was wondering what your HP is at rearwheel.

 

Thanks Quad for the education on the Propane. I was not aware of how cheap it was to run. Whose system do you use? Or did you build your own, and if so what type liqud or vapor draw? Gregg

 

Quad,
When do you get your tank filled? Before it runs out or after it's all gone. I was wondering if you are getting charged for the actual volume of propane you use or a flat charge to fill the tank. Thanks for all the insight on propane.
Scott