The cop out of all cop outs.

My analogy in the "Respect" thread got me to thinking about bankruptcy.

What do you think.

 

Having gone through it once,I can understand how it can happen.Unless you have been there it may indeed seem to be a copout.IMO.

 

100% agree.

Waxy

 

In my mind it is a cop out when people with good jobs 'write off' credit card debits, that they could have paid off. These people can turn around and use their existing good credit to have at it again.
Having had to go the bankruptcy route as being the only income earner and being so far in debt for family medical problems, I can attest that it should only be done when there is no other choice. It stays with you for a very long time and if you don't have enough income you will find it exceedingly hard to rebuild credit. For the most part you are credit scum to most businesses.

 

never been there. But understand how people can get in over ther heads. Medical bills with no insurance for example.

Like anything, insurance, welfare it can be abused. But , God forbid, if you ever need it is good to have an option.

 

well...glad you asked.. being in the credit union business (and prior to my job as a loan officer I was a collector ) I think FAR to many people use Bankruptcy. Many people file Chapter 7 to disolve all their debt when in all actuality, they could have filed Chapter 13 and at least paid back part of the money they used. I think the idea of bankruptcy was to help when nothing else could....and in my opinion there are SOME circumstances that that people should be allowed to. I personally would do everything humanly possible prior to doing such a thing. I can't tell you how many times I would see people with good paying jobs run up a ton of debt and file bankruptcy because it was the easy way out...or use it as part of thier retirement plan....we have had several that file just after the purchase that new vehicle, the boat, get the house set up like they want it....(i gotta agree debt free living in retirment would be the goal) but to misuse bankruptcy like that is THEFT! we have even seen some switch back and forth between 7 & 13....you have to wait a little between filings of the same chapter (so by switching, you can keep the drive alive). It is a system in need of a lot of reworking to say the least. the lawmakers keep trying to come up with something, but no one can agree on what is should say and how strict it should be...meanwhile, joe consumer and the businesses that sell to these people are paying the price.

we used to have a running joke in our colleciton dept that if you had great credit, you could get some of those high limit cards and buy a nice vehicle, build a nice house (using the credit cards to finance everything) then file BK and be set for life ....its sad, but true.

 

.............Alot of the Problems associated with Ch.7 filing(s) is Directly Attributely to "Easy Credit" by Credit Card (Thieves) er Companies. They get no sympathy from ME , At all. They are cold blooded loan sharks IMHO. They represent everything that is wrong with our national Credit system. If we had a Banking and Credit system that was returned to a Semi federally controlled situation we would BE alot better off. Since the Banking system has essentially been Decontrolled to alarge extent The credit card Hogs are Making Ungodly amounts of Money even though they are operating with a 20% default rate.
............If I was President , I would give them a Legislative Vasectomy along with a New Set of guidelines that would correct the Problems that are rampant within in the Current system......s.kuteman

 

I live in an above middle class neighboorhood, and I find it extremely offensive and an complete insult/slap in my face that two of my neighbors have filed bankruptcy and yet still live in the same house. The good ol' days were much, much, much better; their house and cars (which they could not afford) were sold, they LEFT this community, and property more fitting to their financial situation was acquired (such as section 8 housing). These days, there doesn't seem to be much shame in bankruptcy and lawyers almost seem to encourage it. Unfortunately, creditors make it all too easy for marginal people to get more credit and this only aggravates the problem. Put the shame back in bankruptcy and more people will try harder to not go down that road. Also, a little education in financial planning might help. I'm not aware of any being taught in the schools in my area, yet they have time to teach other lame things.

 

for the most part, I think bankruptcy is a cop-out.......I've come across my fair share of losers who use it and act like their next one will be no big deal either.
And guess what? I'M paying for it indirectly too and it kinda peeves me to see 'em smile about it or act like it is really no big deal. The penalties are not nearly severe enough on the cases I've dealt with.......

BUT......I'm sure there's a place for it on some instances, however, I still feel that it's too easy to get an almost-clean slate these days.

Kind of like when CAPABLE people laugh about getting Unemployment monies almost equal to what they were earning before they lost their job, and how they are enjoying their paid vacation. Yeah, I indirectly pay for THAT too!

All to easy to get handouts anymore.

 

It's real easy to judge people without living a day in their shoes.I don't mean to dissapoint anyone but i felt no shame.My hats off to those of you more fortunate folks.Did it occur to anyone that unforseeable circumstances play a part in the filing?Maybe someone had an unfortunate accident not covered by insurance,thus unable to work,thus unable to pay the bills.If I'm being labled as a person who copsout,a credit scum,someone who is looking for sympathy,or someone who will ruin your precious neighborhood,so be it.For the record,I lost my house ,and I payed most of the other bills off but not in the timeframe the creditors were happy with. I now have very good credit .Sometimes things can get a little rough raising 5 kids on a single income.It's easy to judge,not being the one to go through it.IMHO

 

IMHO bankruptcy is like any other stop gap measure - to be used as a last resort only. But there for those instances when it is truly need it.

All people need to learn to live within their financial means and need to learn to manage credit. Today credit cards with large spending limits are easy to come by and that minimum monthly payment is small enough that it can easily be paid. What we need is better consumer education so people know what that credit actually costs.

Maybe bankruptcy laws need to be amended so that it is not so easy to file and abuse the system. That way bankruptcy may be reserved for those you truly need it through no fault (like running up hugh credit card bills) of their own. None of us are exempt from that catastrophic accident that could financially wipe us out (except maybe Bill Gates).

For myself, I have never had to file bankruptcy and I live within my financial means (that means I can't buy everything I want for my truck now - I might have to save for it!) however, some act of God for which my insurance is insufficient could change all that. In that case I would avail myself of bankruptcy as necessary.

 

I once had a customer come in and buy a Taurus. Sent the credit ap to the bank the next morning, who immediately called us to let us know that this person had filed bankruptcy just last week. He would NOT be getting a new car, to say the least. When I called the customer to let him know the bad news, he replied, "what's the problem? They didn't refuse me the LAST time I filed bankruptcy?" Turns out, he had filed B/K once before, about 8 years ago, and managed to get to a dealer and buy a car BEFORE his court filing had hit the credit bureau! He honestly couldn't understand how 2 bankruptcies made the banks a little nervous.

 

I've know people that file bankruptcy that were abusing the system... but...

I also have a problem with the preditory pricing practices by lenders, doctors, insurance and even oil companies.

Basically- the system removes all excess money from 60% of the population so they live on the edge all the time.

That is just a fact- 60% live paycheck to paycheck, 1% wealthy and the rest are "comfortable".

 

I am in the middle of chapter thirteen bankruptcy now and believe me it was not because I was "coping out" I was layed off and working two part time Jobs while looking to get back into my field. I was two months behind in my mortgage payment and son to be three. I had made arrangements with the mortgage co. to pay them three months on a certain day. because of a job interview it was sent by western union the next morning as soon as they opened. Imagine my surprise when the payment was returned and foreclosure was started. They immediately tacked on $900 worth of lawyer fees and other $$. I could not come up with the additional $$ and spoke to a lawyer to try and resolve. The mortgage co would not budge and filing chapter 13 was the only resort. Now I am working steady and have been paying almost $400 a month to the bankruptcy court and in three years I will be done. BUT IT WAS NOT A COP OUT. I had to look out for those who depend on me for shelter.

Chris

 

I too have gone through bankruptcy and felt the same way that most of you feel like. Its the easy way out. I HAD NO CHOICE. I started my buisness five years ago but within that time my partner ( brother in law ) moved, getting help that would say that they were interested in the buisness quit at pivitol time frames is also very tough to deal with when your trying to make money. Training people to do tree work is a time consuming effort thus jobs bid for a certain time now take longer and more money comes out of your pocket. When I was younger I racked up two credit cards. At one point I was paying $200 a month for each for about a year. I got nowhere but kept trudging through. My wife suggested a credit counciling program, I was skeptical but my wife is pretty smart so I said OK. Mind you I didnt like it. They told us that they would, on our behalf, get the balance down but we had to pay them not the creditors. WE payed them for a year and they went bankrupt. All the money that we payed them is gone and the creditors were now ready to sue us for alot more money than we owed because of additional fees. I called them and tried to work things out with them but they wouldnt. I needed to come up with a ridiculous amount of money that I didnt have. One company that I owed only a thousand dollars wouldnt take my only $500. That was the point that I said forget it you people dont care about anyone who is having a time of difficulty. They jacked up the price to 17-1800 dollars. I couldnt believe it 800 dollars...for what. Thats when a lawyer friend recommended a bankruptcy lawyer to us. Now listen, I didnt want to do it I felt like it was my mistake I need to pay for it but the companies dont care their uncompassion and rudeness made it easier for me. I wanted to work it out but their terms were to much for me to handle. We only did the credit card co's other people that I owed money to I payed off over time. Thank God for the bankruptcy I have shown a lot of compassion to people in my life who did me wrong and I felt like it was my turn. I am very thankful I have my house that I pay for and my truck that I am almost done with and just yesterday we got a 2002 Explorer for my hard working wife who is an on call maternity nurse. Her car was totalled on Christmas day 2002. we had an 85 t-bird in bad condition, then a 92 cavalier, got us aroud but hated that car, and now finally a 4wd for babies that want to be born during a snow storm.