Axle Wrap
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Elder User
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: West Virginia
Axle Wrap
Does anyone know if there is a certain % of power loss due to axle wrap? I know that when the springs wrap up, that your not getting all the power to the ground, I just don't know if there is a way to figure out how much your loosing. Any ideas?
Thanks, Fitter
Thanks, Fitter
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 196
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From: Chicago
Gotta ask, where's the power going? I can see a little going to twist the axle, but that's only a little to do the initial twist, so it'll be recovered when you ease back the gas.
If all your power is not going to the ground, it has to show up somewhere, as heat loss, or something.
You might be right, but maybe someone can explain....?
Oldchap
If all your power is not going to the ground, it has to show up somewhere, as heat loss, or something.
You might be right, but maybe someone can explain....?
Oldchap
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Elder User
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From: West Virginia
Ok, Let me put it another way. Lets say your axle is bolted solid to your frame. It will take x amount of HP/ Torque to spin the tires, right? Now if you bolt your axle to springs, will the tires spin with the same amount of HP/Torque? I don't think so, because the springs will absorb some of the HP/Torque. My question is there a certain % the springs will absorb? I know this is probley a stupid question but it's winter and I have to much time to think...lol
Fitter
Fitter
More Turbo
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 534
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From: Park County, CO
The springs are reacted "held" by the frame so the HP/torque to spin is exactly the same. What leaf springs do is allow for wheel hop. You get wheel hop when you wind up one spring to the point of tire slippage, the tire then slips allowing the twist to come back out. The cycling of twist, no twist, during a burnout makes the wheel hop. Good shocks will settle this down.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2003
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Hmmmm..... I have pretty bad wrap if I stand on it. Super duty springs like all others will do it if subjected to the right load. The answer to your original question is no, I don't believe there is any way of measuring power loss.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,859
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From: USA
Why the ? we don't drag race these trucks !
These are work trucks ! not 1/4 mile drag cars !
The loss is so small ,but the only thing you will hear is a driveline clunk form the slip joint.
carry on !
Rich
These are work trucks ! not 1/4 mile drag cars !
The loss is so small ,but the only thing you will hear is a driveline clunk form the slip joint.
carry on !
Rich
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Lead Driver
Joined: May 2003
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From: Lyndonville, Vermont
But Rich some of these guys are probably half our age.
Think young...Drag race young....LOL
Dick
Think young...Drag race young....LOL
Dick
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Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Somewhere west of Arizona
Some of you are showing your age... Now I'll show mine... Remember the the Mr. Gasket "slapper" traction bars everybody with leaf springs on their cars ran back in the seventies? Usually saw these on Camaros, Dusters, etc. Then all the mini-truckers started putting them on their rice-burners. 4-link cars like Chevelles ran ladder bars. Same principle, just trying to keep the axle from wrapping up.
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Elder User
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: West Virginia
Rich, This question doesn't have anything to do with racing my truck. I didn't spend 30k+ on my truck to drag race with it. The question apply's to anything that has rear leaf springs. I'm sure that everyone on here experienced the rear of the truck/car squat when they get into the throttle, well thats axle wrap. I was just wondering if there was a formula to estamate how much HP/Torque wasn't getting to the ground due to this? As I said in an earlier post, that it was a crazy question, but how do you learn if you dont ask?
Thanks, Fitter
As far as the age thing goes, I was born before the Beatles were ever heard of...lol
Thanks, Fitter
As far as the age thing goes, I was born before the Beatles were ever heard of...lol
Last edited by fitter565; Feb 15, 2004 at 05:03 AM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: IN FRONT OF YOU
Not that this has anything to do with this or for that matter I even know what I'm talking about but in certain applications, drag cars, and circle track cars, we take in to consideration the axle rotation to give us the proper pinion angle under load.
In other words, we set the angle higher than it should be, so when the tourqe is applied and the axle rotates forward, it gives us the correct pinion angle..
In other words, we set the angle higher than it should be, so when the tourqe is applied and the axle rotates forward, it gives us the correct pinion angle..
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Lenexa, KS
There is probably an equation to figure total force on one side and the sum of all totals on the other side. You would have to know variables like spring tension, tire footprint, truck weight, etc. to figure the loss of torque or power to the street. This would be vehicle specific as well because the variables would differ across the board. I was reading a thread on torque a while ago and it seems to me that they figure 20% (???) loss to the rear wheels. Would this be the reason?? Anyway, just a thought.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 494
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From: Somewhere west of Arizona
I don't think there are any formulas to calculate because there are far too many variables to take into consideration; i.e. vehicle weight, front/rear weight bias, amount of traction at various ambient temperatures/tire air pressures/tire temperatures/surfaces/suspension configuation, etcetera, etcetera. To try to answer your original question, I would say no, there is no way to calculate the amount of power loss due to axle wrap. As stated by OLdChap above, all vehicles will lose some power to wrap initially, but eventually the axle will reach it's limit and all power will be transmitted to the tires and surface, at which point the the vehicle will intiate forward motion or the tires will spin, or a combination of both. Actually, every time a vehicle moves under it's own power, some amount of tire slippage will take place, no matter how minute. In fact, all components of your drive train will absorb some amount of energy. It will never be 100% efficient. We just build components such as traction bars to restrict the amount of absorbtion.
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Elder User
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From: West Virginia
Thanks guy's, I knew there were several variables to this question but I thought I would ask. Well I'm off to the shop to build some bars for the truck, so I can hold the wrap to a minimum. With a 5.4 you need all the help you can get...lol
Fitter
Fitter