Iraq?
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From: Detroit Subs
Originally posted by whistler
Ahhh, yes. The BBC, a pack of liars and conspiracists, all of them. I'm sure they really didn't interview the protesters. In fact, I bet those were hired actors speaking in Arabic sitting in a London recording studio being told by the 'correspondant' what to say.
Whistler
Ahhh, yes. The BBC, a pack of liars and conspiracists, all of them. I'm sure they really didn't interview the protesters. In fact, I bet those were hired actors speaking in Arabic sitting in a London recording studio being told by the 'correspondant' what to say.
Whistler
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If I recall, I never gave a number or percent of Iraqi's who believed the US was behind the bombings. There is no way I could. In fact there is no way anybody really could.
All I relayed is what happened during the interview with the protester. Then I went on to point out that this kind of thinking is dangerous. When ordinary citizens cease to be reasonably objective about events perception becomes reality. If the perception becomes widespread enough...well, we know what will hit the fan.
I would tend to agree with your source on the ground that the majority of Iraqis recognize the need for US forces to stabilize the country. I would also tend to agree with the BBC report that a substantial group of Iraqis are exceedingly ticked off at us. Does anybody really know the breakdown? No, not me, not you, not your source on the ground, not the CIA, FBI or Interpol.
One thing is clear, the situation is quite volatile. Tomorrow will most likely be different than today.
I have my opinions on this issue, but I have tried to keep them low-key and malleable so as to be receptive to new information as it comes.
Whistler
All I relayed is what happened during the interview with the protester. Then I went on to point out that this kind of thinking is dangerous. When ordinary citizens cease to be reasonably objective about events perception becomes reality. If the perception becomes widespread enough...well, we know what will hit the fan.
I would tend to agree with your source on the ground that the majority of Iraqis recognize the need for US forces to stabilize the country. I would also tend to agree with the BBC report that a substantial group of Iraqis are exceedingly ticked off at us. Does anybody really know the breakdown? No, not me, not you, not your source on the ground, not the CIA, FBI or Interpol.
One thing is clear, the situation is quite volatile. Tomorrow will most likely be different than today.
I have my opinions on this issue, but I have tried to keep them low-key and malleable so as to be receptive to new information as it comes.
Whistler
Last edited by whistler; Feb 12, 2004 at 10:26 AM.
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From: Detroit Subs
Originally posted by jskufan
I guess you're saying that our economy CAN handle the cost. Where did the $100 billion figure come from?? We probably used that up before the first week of the invasion ended. Obviously, we have the money to fund the war, it's more about making a choice. Just like Russia, every dollar that is diverted to military conflicts like Iraq is a dollar that could be spent somewhere else in your domestic economy. In addition, the human resources at the highest level of this administration are continually being diverted/distracted away from the issues within our own country.
I guess you're saying that our economy CAN handle the cost. Where did the $100 billion figure come from?? We probably used that up before the first week of the invasion ended. Obviously, we have the money to fund the war, it's more about making a choice. Just like Russia, every dollar that is diverted to military conflicts like Iraq is a dollar that could be spent somewhere else in your domestic economy. In addition, the human resources at the highest level of this administration are continually being diverted/distracted away from the issues within our own country.
Of course, they were all there when it came time to talk rebuilding contracts, but that's a topic for another forum that welcomes strong debate.
If I was in charge, the US would own Iraq right now.
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Originally posted by jpsartre12
With the US pumping arms (especially shoulder-launched Stingers that had a pension for Russian gunships) into Afghanistan and the training/support mentioned above, it simply became uneconomical for the USSR to continue pouring money into Afghanistan. Their economy couldn't handle the cost.
By contrast, the US spends $100Billions in Iraq and US citizens complain because they won't be able to Supersize their fries at McDonald's as a result.
With the US pumping arms (especially shoulder-launched Stingers that had a pension for Russian gunships) into Afghanistan and the training/support mentioned above, it simply became uneconomical for the USSR to continue pouring money into Afghanistan. Their economy couldn't handle the cost.
By contrast, the US spends $100Billions in Iraq and US citizens complain because they won't be able to Supersize their fries at McDonald's as a result.
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From: NE Texas
Dono - You're right on! Of course the truth is out there, just hidden from those that really don't want to see.
I have always tried to pull my punches on this war, tried to be nice, but it's time someone looks at the lingering affects of it. It is a "just" cause to rid the world of evil - I do believe that. But, in this case (given we have gone this far) there are no other options but to deal with Islam, in it's purest form, if we are ever going to be able to liberate this country. In doing so we will have to "purify" the country as a whole, thus ending any affiliation with that faith. Yes, genocide. Do you really think we can go that far? Not me.
Scoff if you will, but history (and common sense) support me.
I have always tried to pull my punches on this war, tried to be nice, but it's time someone looks at the lingering affects of it. It is a "just" cause to rid the world of evil - I do believe that. But, in this case (given we have gone this far) there are no other options but to deal with Islam, in it's purest form, if we are ever going to be able to liberate this country. In doing so we will have to "purify" the country as a whole, thus ending any affiliation with that faith. Yes, genocide. Do you really think we can go that far? Not me.
Scoff if you will, but history (and common sense) support me.
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From: Nevada
Originally posted by Big Orn
Dono - You're right on! Of course the truth is out there, just hidden from those that really don't want to see.
I have always tried to pull my punches on this war, tried to be nice, but it's time someone looks at the lingering affects of it. It is a "just" cause to rid the world of evil - I do believe that. But, in this case (given we have gone this far) there are no other options but to deal with Islam, in it's purest form, if we are ever going to be able to liberate this country. In doing so we will have to "purify" the country as a whole, thus ending any affiliation with that faith. Yes, genocide. Do you really think we can go that far? Not me.
Scoff if you will, but history (and common sense) support me.
Dono - You're right on! Of course the truth is out there, just hidden from those that really don't want to see.
I have always tried to pull my punches on this war, tried to be nice, but it's time someone looks at the lingering affects of it. It is a "just" cause to rid the world of evil - I do believe that. But, in this case (given we have gone this far) there are no other options but to deal with Islam, in it's purest form, if we are ever going to be able to liberate this country. In doing so we will have to "purify" the country as a whole, thus ending any affiliation with that faith. Yes, genocide. Do you really think we can go that far? Not me.
Scoff if you will, but history (and common sense) support me.
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From: Detroit Subs
Originally posted by dono
We are spending about a $billion a WEEK in Iraq with no end in sight. This money is being borrowed and added to our record deficits, expanding the debt load placed on the backs of future generations by short sighted "leaders" intent on feathering their own nests - money that could be used to bolster a sagging economy.
Perhaps those who "complain because they won't be able to Supersize their fries at McDonald's" are concerned that their children may someday be serving those fries because new jobs are not being created for them.
We are spending about a $billion a WEEK in Iraq with no end in sight. This money is being borrowed and added to our record deficits, expanding the debt load placed on the backs of future generations by short sighted "leaders" intent on feathering their own nests - money that could be used to bolster a sagging economy.
Perhaps those who "complain because they won't be able to Supersize their fries at McDonald's" are concerned that their children may someday be serving those fries because new jobs are not being created for them.
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From: Detroit Subs
Originally posted by georgedavila
Considering that the public has swallowed WMD, protecting our constitution, fighting the 'war' on terror, Saddam being worse than many African nation leaders, democracy being ideal for Iraq, our 'robust' economy without jobs and formation of a semi-police state, it would probably accept a Crusade for God theme covering genocide. Just promise them jobs. Which God may confuse them, but our political handlers can always find the right spin for any situation. What color uniforms our purifiers wear may also cause some controversy.
Considering that the public has swallowed WMD, protecting our constitution, fighting the 'war' on terror, Saddam being worse than many African nation leaders, democracy being ideal for Iraq, our 'robust' economy without jobs and formation of a semi-police state, it would probably accept a Crusade for God theme covering genocide. Just promise them jobs. Which God may confuse them, but our political handlers can always find the right spin for any situation. What color uniforms our purifiers wear may also cause some controversy.
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From: Nevada
Originally posted by jpsartre12
I'd go with the "white attire". It's awfully hot in the Middle East.
I'd go with the "white attire". It's awfully hot in the Middle East.
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From: NE Texas
Originally posted by georgedavila
Don't worry Big Orn, you wouldn't have to participate, just join the National Guard.
Don't worry Big Orn, you wouldn't have to participate, just join the National Guard.
Before you get a particular layered flame for this - I'll go ahead and say that, even though I know many in the NG that would lay down his/her life, you meant it in a politically humorous way.As a matter of fact I even shiver when I read my own post.
But, just let history speak for itself. If you can't hear it...read about it.
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From: Nevada
History always repeats itself because most people are followers and we haven't had much original direction in recent times. This one looks, to me, exactly like a desert Vietnam without a draft to catch the public's attention or a China to curb our rationalizations that the world is better served by our form of government. I think Iran and Turkey will be the long-term beneficiaries of our redo of Iraq. I still don't understand why we're banging our head against the inevitable, but political egos often defy explanation.
With a few straight party line exceptions, I have noticed a much different level of response to this thread than when the same type of questions were asked several months ago. Some of the blind emotional support for our actions in Iraq is waning and being replaced by reason, which will become even more pronounced as our financial problems broaden their reach. I honestly didn't expect an indication of change this soon, I thought the civil problems within Iraq itself would have to develop to a greater extent before the general public realized we might be barking up the wrong tree.
With a few straight party line exceptions, I have noticed a much different level of response to this thread than when the same type of questions were asked several months ago. Some of the blind emotional support for our actions in Iraq is waning and being replaced by reason, which will become even more pronounced as our financial problems broaden their reach. I honestly didn't expect an indication of change this soon, I thought the civil problems within Iraq itself would have to develop to a greater extent before the general public realized we might be barking up the wrong tree.
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From: NE Texas
Originally posted by georgedavila
I think Iran and Turkey will be the long-term beneficiaries of our redo of Iraq.
I think Iran and Turkey will be the long-term beneficiaries of our redo of Iraq.
Originally posted by georgedavila
With a few straight party line exceptions, I have noticed a much different level of response to this thread than when the same type of questions were asked several months ago. Some of the blind emotional support for our actions in Iraq is waning and being replaced by reason, which will become even more pronounced as our financial problems broaden their reach. I honestly didn't expect an indication of change this soon, I thought the civil problems within Iraq itself would have to develop to a greater extent before the general public realized we might be barking up the wrong tree.
With a few straight party line exceptions, I have noticed a much different level of response to this thread than when the same type of questions were asked several months ago. Some of the blind emotional support for our actions in Iraq is waning and being replaced by reason, which will become even more pronounced as our financial problems broaden their reach. I honestly didn't expect an indication of change this soon, I thought the civil problems within Iraq itself would have to develop to a greater extent before the general public realized we might be barking up the wrong tree.
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Originally posted by jpsartre12
I hope that they demonstrate the same level of outrage for the $Trillions that have been given away on a variety of social engineering programs over the past 40 years or so. Or the $100's of Billions spent by US industries on bogus environmental regulations and restrictive labor laws that decrease their competitiveness in the world market. As long as we're going to assign blame for our deficit and lost jobs, let's at least be honest about where we place it.
I hope that they demonstrate the same level of outrage for the $Trillions that have been given away on a variety of social engineering programs over the past 40 years or so. Or the $100's of Billions spent by US industries on bogus environmental regulations and restrictive labor laws that decrease their competitiveness in the world market. As long as we're going to assign blame for our deficit and lost jobs, let's at least be honest about where we place it.
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From: Nevada
Originally posted by dono
I I stayed up last night listening to Alan Greenspan talk with House of Reps and he warned, "The inbalance in the federal budgetary situation, UNLESS ADDRESSED SOON, will pose serious longer-term fiscal difficulties......the longer we wait before addressing these inbalances, the more wrenching the fiscal adjustment will ultimately be".
I I stayed up last night listening to Alan Greenspan talk with House of Reps and he warned, "The inbalance in the federal budgetary situation, UNLESS ADDRESSED SOON, will pose serious longer-term fiscal difficulties......the longer we wait before addressing these inbalances, the more wrenching the fiscal adjustment will ultimately be".
Like anyone who can read numbers, my conservative friends are apalled at our current fiscal direction with Iraq. There's nothing in the 2005 budget for it or Afghanistan, we're being told estimates and requests will be forthcoming after the election and until then discretionary, off-budget funding will be used to shield all but lump sum requests from public view.
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From: Detroit Subs
Originally posted by dono
... I stayed up last night listening to Alan Greenspan talk with House of Reps and he warned, "The inbalance in the federal budgetary situation, UNLESS ADDRESSED SOON, will pose serious longer-term fiscal difficulties......the longer we wait before addressing these inbalances, the more wrenching the fiscal adjustment will ultimately be". He spoke with a chart entitled " Backsliding into the deficit ditch - From deficit to Surplus to Deficit Again". This is not a Conservative or Liberal, Republican or Democrat problem, it is an American problem. Hopefully, because this is an election year, we can be heard in the coming months and make this the primary issue. I will not vote for the architects of this folly.
... I stayed up last night listening to Alan Greenspan talk with House of Reps and he warned, "The inbalance in the federal budgetary situation, UNLESS ADDRESSED SOON, will pose serious longer-term fiscal difficulties......the longer we wait before addressing these inbalances, the more wrenching the fiscal adjustment will ultimately be". He spoke with a chart entitled " Backsliding into the deficit ditch - From deficit to Surplus to Deficit Again". This is not a Conservative or Liberal, Republican or Democrat problem, it is an American problem. Hopefully, because this is an election year, we can be heard in the coming months and make this the primary issue. I will not vote for the architects of this folly.
We should be concerned about all forms of current funding, including the sacred cows. It is the sacred cows that are paving our way to Hell, not short-term war financing at the rate of $4Billion/month. The war will end, SS and Medicare won't. They just expand exponentially.