Wimpy Fists
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: The County
My son leaves for Iraq next month.If something should happen to him or any of the other young men and women we are sending over,I would like to think that they would be considered heros,even if they never got to see real combat.I certainally feel that they are heros,and not just because I have a personal connection to the conflict.
Admom
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,414
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From: Silver Springs
Sorry George - guess I should have been a bit more specific. My quest for "hreed" was to point me to the research showing that Kerry was not a war hero. I'd already been through the sites you pointed me to.
In my book, serving in Vietnam in it's self makes most a hero in my book. Add to that "He received a Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat."
I have several friends that were in Nam, one I almost married, but honestly, I just couldn't deal with the aftermath he came home with. Another was a tunnel-rat and if we go visit him, especially at night, we call first. He's in his own little world most of the time and still on the hunt. The other two fair a bit better. Having 2 out of 4 being somewhat normal ain't great odds. IMHO, anyone coming out of there with their mind mostly intact is better that what we have now in the White House.
In my book, serving in Vietnam in it's self makes most a hero in my book. Add to that "He received a Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat."
I have several friends that were in Nam, one I almost married, but honestly, I just couldn't deal with the aftermath he came home with. Another was a tunnel-rat and if we go visit him, especially at night, we call first. He's in his own little world most of the time and still on the hunt. The other two fair a bit better. Having 2 out of 4 being somewhat normal ain't great odds. IMHO, anyone coming out of there with their mind mostly intact is better that what we have now in the White House.
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From: Homer, Alaska
Golly Carlene-I guess you weren't one of the protestors spitting at the returning "baby killing" heros back in the 60's and 70's. Don't think purple hearts and silver stars are a measure of what one did in combat. At one time a purple heart meant something. A bronze star was exceptional. Now they throw out medals for just about anything. Please don't think that a few medals are the "measure of the man".
Admom
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 9,414
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From: Silver Springs
You're correct - NOW they throw those metals around for news coverage and promoting the military. Back then, the same medals meant something to more than just those that earned them. I never thought anyone was "throwing metals around" until we got into this war on Iraq.
You are right, I was not one of those "protestors spitting at the returning baby killing heros".
And, you still haven't fulfilled my request..........
You are right, I was not one of those "protestors spitting at the returning baby killing heros".
And, you still haven't fulfilled my request..........
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Nevada
The derogatory remarks I've read about Kerry's Vietnam service have always been prefaced by condemnation of his anti-war support, which took place after he fulfilled his military service in Vietnam. The primary criticism is his being awarded the Silver Star without two witnesses, as normally required by military policy. The defense against those accusations is his boat crew, who were there when he beached the boat, chased an enemy into the jungle, shots were exchanged and only Kerry returned to the boat. That alone would take some big ones, so most readers accept his heroism as fact while his detractors are comprised of mostly Vietnam War supporters (they are still out there), military lifers who consider anyone who protested that war a traitor and Bush crowd followers.
I do find it interesting when comparing military service records between Kerry and Bush that Bush's records consist of one photo of him in the cockpit of an F102 and his pay records. The White house is unable to bring forth even one individual who served with or commanded him. To me, that's a very questionable scenario.
I do find it interesting when comparing military service records between Kerry and Bush that Bush's records consist of one photo of him in the cockpit of an F102 and his pay records. The White house is unable to bring forth even one individual who served with or commanded him. To me, that's a very questionable scenario.
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Originally posted by Carlene
You're correct - NOW they throw those metals around for news coverage and promoting the military. Back then, the same medals meant something to more than just those that earned them. I never thought anyone was "throwing metals around" until we got into this war on Iraq.
You're correct - NOW they throw those metals around for news coverage and promoting the military. Back then, the same medals meant something to more than just those that earned them. I never thought anyone was "throwing metals around" until we got into this war on Iraq.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Near Wamego KS
"The defense against those accusations is his boat crew, who were there when he beached the boat, chased an enemy into the jungle, shots were exchanged and only Kerry returned to the boat."
BLOCKED LANGUAGE NOT ACCEPTED
Actual action that Kerry won the Silver Star:
Swift boat is is fired upon by Vietnamese soldier (?) with a shoulder launch rocket from shore. Kerry runs boat aground (several conflicting stories as to why - none are flattering). Enemy pops up out of spider hole (nearly under the bow) and fires second round at now GROUNDED sitting target (formally a Swift Boat). Enemy then runs from grounded target and is hit several times by single mount machinegun. Enemy falls behind a hut at the sand line. Two other machine guns open fire on hut and literally blow it apart with thousands of rounds. Firing stops and Kerry jumps off boat and runs up to hut and pumps two rounds into the head of wounded (died?) Vietnamese with his side arm. Picks up the rocket launcher and returns to boat.
If an American soldier in Iraq executed a wounded combatant in that manner he would be facing a court martial - not an award.
BLOCKED LANGUAGE NOT ACCEPTED
Actual action that Kerry won the Silver Star:
Swift boat is is fired upon by Vietnamese soldier (?) with a shoulder launch rocket from shore. Kerry runs boat aground (several conflicting stories as to why - none are flattering). Enemy pops up out of spider hole (nearly under the bow) and fires second round at now GROUNDED sitting target (formally a Swift Boat). Enemy then runs from grounded target and is hit several times by single mount machinegun. Enemy falls behind a hut at the sand line. Two other machine guns open fire on hut and literally blow it apart with thousands of rounds. Firing stops and Kerry jumps off boat and runs up to hut and pumps two rounds into the head of wounded (died?) Vietnamese with his side arm. Picks up the rocket launcher and returns to boat.
If an American soldier in Iraq executed a wounded combatant in that manner he would be facing a court martial - not an award.
Last edited by Ryan50hrl; Feb 11, 2004 at 04:30 PM.
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From: Calgary Canada
Originally posted by dhermesc
"The defense against those accusations is his boat crew, who were there when he beached the boat, chased an enemy into the jungle, shots were exchanged and only Kerry returned to the boat."
Where the heck did that line of BS come from?
Actual action that Kerry won the Silver Star:
Swift boat is is fired upon by Vietnamese soldier (?) with a shoulder launch rocket from shore. Kerry runs boat aground (several conflicting stories as to why - none are flattering). Enemy pops up out of spider hole (nearly under the bow) and fires second round at now GROUNDED sitting target (formally a Swift Boat). Enemy then runs from grounded target and is hit several times by single mount machinegun. Enemy falls behind a hut at the sand line. Two other machine guns open fire on hut and literally blow it apart with thousands of rounds. Firing stops and Kerry jumps off boat and runs up to hut and pumps two rounds into the head of wounded (died?) Vietnamese with his side arm. Picks up the rocket launcher and returns to boat.
"The defense against those accusations is his boat crew, who were there when he beached the boat, chased an enemy into the jungle, shots were exchanged and only Kerry returned to the boat."
Where the heck did that line of BS come from?
Actual action that Kerry won the Silver Star:
Swift boat is is fired upon by Vietnamese soldier (?) with a shoulder launch rocket from shore. Kerry runs boat aground (several conflicting stories as to why - none are flattering). Enemy pops up out of spider hole (nearly under the bow) and fires second round at now GROUNDED sitting target (formally a Swift Boat). Enemy then runs from grounded target and is hit several times by single mount machinegun. Enemy falls behind a hut at the sand line. Two other machine guns open fire on hut and literally blow it apart with thousands of rounds. Firing stops and Kerry jumps off boat and runs up to hut and pumps two rounds into the head of wounded (died?) Vietnamese with his side arm. Picks up the rocket launcher and returns to boat.
I'd like to read the actual account in his service record and that provided by those actually on the boat, is this info available anywhere?
Waxy
Last edited by Ryan50hrl; Feb 11, 2004 at 04:31 PM.
Posting Guru
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From: Near Wamego KS
The best evaulation of a commander is usually made by the enemy that faced him. That is how Patton lays claim to "The Best" in WWII. The consensious of surviving German Field Marshals was that he was the best the allies had to offer.
Lets read what North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap (Commander of Southern Forces 1971-1975) has to say about Kerry in his 1985 memoir:
"if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S."
Lets read what North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap (Commander of Southern Forces 1971-1975) has to say about Kerry in his 1985 memoir:
"if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S."
