I don't have a clue as to the facts or statistics behind this discussion but we've owned 5 GM truks/suvs and 2 Fords suv's in the last 8 years. The 2 Fords easily had more combined trips to the dealer than the 5 combined GM's. No high mileage on any of them and no catastrophic failures of any kind in any of them. Well, the AC pump blowing on the Explorer was catastrophic to our wallet since the 75k ext warranty had JUST run out.

I feel that they both make great trucks but Ford seems to have more little problems than GM as far as getting it right the first time in build quality.

 

Take a look at the GMC trucks. IMO, they're the best looking full sized trucks on the market. And the dmax is an awesome motor.

 

Ford said that all trucks after nov of 03 have had all of the problems fixed, is this right?

 

GMC makes one slick rig - for me it's seriuosly going to come down to the GMC of Ford SD.

GMC 2500HD Reg Cab 2wd / 8100 / ZF 6 speed / 4.10 -Base trim

or

Ford SD250 Reg Cab 2wd / V10 / ZF 6 speed / 4.30 - XL trim.

 

i have to admit, that 8100 L18 V8 packs a nice punch. 455lbs @3200rpm...thats some sweet torque. too bad its not stuffed inside a SD we only get 425lbs @3250 and we have 2 more cylinders....whats that all about????

 

Look at it this way: The 8100 has to have 20% more displacement than a 6.8L V10 to produce a measly extra 25lb-ft (which is only 5% more than the V10) at only 50 less rpm. Big f'ing deal. GM downgraded the '04 8.1L to 450lb-ft.

Every magazine article I've seen puts the two engines neck & neck when they line them up and test the acceleration with and without trailers.

Ford's V10 produces 63lb-ft per liter. GM's 8.1L produces 55lb-ft per liter and gets worse mileage doing it.

 

The 6.8 has to have 2 more cylinders... SOOOOO?????


Ron

00 Excursion Limited V-10 4x4

 

The 8100 is going to be around a long long time.
This engine has a ton of unused power just waiting to be tapped.
GM has detuned the 8100 by a whole lot more than 5 lbft.

In every test I've seen done, the V10 will usually out accelerate the 8100 both with and without trailers - this is probably due to 4.30 gearing and the fact that the V10 revs higher.
Once the loaded trailers are moving however, the 8100 will pass the V10 everytime - on hills the Allison's 5 speeds make even more difference.
In all fairness to the V10, even though it does have two more cylinders, it's still giving up 81 cubes. In their current formats the V10 is only slightly less powerful, and revs only slightly higher than the 8100. If the V10 does infact get 3 valves per cylinder in 05' it will make the current 8100 look very sloppy indeed. But at that time GM will need only turn the 8100 up a bit to keep the lead.
The 8100 is all truck engine- no doubt about it. It's the only gasoline powered engine validated by any manufacturer for use in 33,000lb GVWR medium duty trucks. GM's Duramax is available in both the C4500 and C5500 series, but the 8100 is also offered in the C6500 series as well. I'd never buy one (fuel milage would be the chits, and longevity would stink as well) but the the engine can handle those loads.

There are NATURALLY aspirated 2 VALVE marine versions of the 8100 pushing 450 HP and almost 600 FTLB of torque - with only slight RPM increases. It's no wonder this engine uses iron heads.

 

The 8100 is not only a gas hog but also an oil hog. In the towing business GM stands for Generous Motors.

 

but still, you would think something with 10 cylinders should be built to blow away anything. right? im not defending either one, just curious as to why 10 isnt a huge differance over 8. heck, my 5.4L blows away gm's 5.3L. that 5.3L is nothing more then high rpm crap. just my opinion. i used to have a 5.7L vortec and this 5.4L blows that away still. anyway, the vortec is a good designed engine, but still cant fig out why they build them to have their max HP and Torque at such high rpms. i always thought lower the better right? for a truck that is.

 

That's nothing new. The # of cylinders doesn't mean as much as displacement and engine design. There are probably examples where 4 cylinder engines outperform V6s.

I know there are I6 engines that outperform V8 engines of larger dispalcement. Look at GM's current 4.2L I6. It outpowers several smaller V8 engines that are larger in cc's.

If Ford built an engine the same size as the 8.1L and got the same amount of torque per liter as the V10 we'd be looking at 505lb-ft!!

 

yea baby, bring it!!!

 

Ford has realized that the big CID ear is done, and that diesel is what people buy when they haul, not a big block which used a quart of oil every 2k miles.

 

Yea diesel is gonna be the new wave of the future and there will be no more gas engines in trucks.


Josh

1997 F-250 XL HeavyDuty 7.3Lpsd 5 speed manual 2 wd

 

well outta 6 people anyway, that use a quart of oil every 2 thousand miles . And One of those is running and old 455 in a 1 ton dually chevy thats about 35 years old.
I dont think that diesels will be the predominate engine for the fact that alot of people who work their trucks do so in far reaches where the only gas is the lil mom and pop down the road, sometimes you cant find diesel for 100 square miles. Add to the fact that say your a fleet manager and you own 20 trucks for work,and the average diesel tacks on 4-5000 dollars per unit. Your purchase price just went up 80-100,000 dollars. not to mention the old worry of everyone who drives it will forget its a diesel and find some how to wedge the unleaded fuel nozzel into it and pump it full.
Diesels will always have their place, In true towing applications, they rule. BUT im sure the big blcokers will still be around for quite some time... By the way i dont Consider My V-10 a Big Block, its kinda Puny for a 10.

Ron

00 Excursion Limited V-10 4x4