I agree, willowbilly3, Love is the key.

But, I might add, another key is getting a reply like this!

All too often you get replies that have some sort of rigid method applied for some effect or other. Getting one that is cut and dried is rare.

As a matter of fact you seem to get those that ask, "You want fries with that?" But, not this time.

 

Here is some scriptures on being saved:....Matt 10:22, 24:13, Mark 16:16, John 3:17. and heres where the born again Quote is from Jesus John 3:3. I think the bumper sticker is in retaliation to the stament " you Christians think your perfect" But vengence is the Lords not ours. Personally I think that America is one of the hardest places to be a Christian in terms of temptation and holiness.

 

Munkey, heres is a scripture about praying to God. 1 Timothy 2:5. I understand the idea but its wrong to pray to Mary. No disrespect but forget what the council says go straight to the Bible. If the council lines up great but if it doesnt then disregard it. They are still men. Remember Paul had a big argument with Peter. Not everyone in a high position is going to be right.

 

You forgot to add Jesus into the equation. It is Jesus that you are supposed to accept into your heart. This is what is meant by "being saved." It is the most fundamental requirement of christianity. Jesus said, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. No man cometh to the father but but Me."

 

I saw it and still do...even though there are alot of people that would say otherwise.
Just to clarify for those that think that God and Jesus are two different people.

BTW - Thanks for the scripture - you are right on the mark!!

 

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't intentionally leave out mention of Jesus' name. It is just hard to keep an answer like that brief and not bore someone with the reply.

 

Any time, willowbilly3. Now, you can go back to work and feel assured I got your back.

I feel bad that the "other" thread got canned...the ending comments had something to do with the Simpsons! Now, that's about right, ain't it?!

 

> What is their basis on the all praises,
> going to the Mother Mary,
> rather than the Son?

It comes from the church in Rome, on the seven hills, changing the word of God to suit its own purpose. You have to go back 1200+ years to tie it altogether into Revelations. That is another topic.

The end result is in most RC bibles, they have a list of the ten commandments that excludes the second commandment (that says no idols) and splits the tenth one into #9 and #10 to cover the gap.

I say "most" because I am holding in my hands the one from "Catholic Book Publishing Company" which was written "under the Patronage of the Episcopal Committe of the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine".

Not following God's commandments issued in Exodus 20:4 "Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any that that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

So, we end up finding statues in churches that people pray to and kneel in front of, directly against what is stated many times in the old and new test. not to do.

>
> this is the essential meaning of Mary's sinlessness
>

Please show me where in the Bible, book and chapter, where anyone other than Jesus is stated as being sinless.

 

I hope I'm not out of line by inserting a humorous story here, but any Catholic with a good sense of humor should love this.

When I was a teen-ager, my uncle passed away- the only Catholic in our family. Now, my father was a Baptist and my Mom was raised Pentecostal/ Assembly Of God. Folks, you just don't get any further from Catholicism than that! None of us had ever been in a Catholic church before, so we were totally unfamiliar with the customs, and no one thought to "educate" us before we got there. At the time, my father had this habit of always lighting a cigarette whenever he got out of the car. My mother noticed it in his hand as we were entering the cathedral, and quickly admonished him for it. He looked for a place to put it out, and he spotted this large, marble ashtray. He flicked the butt out of his hand, and we thought it was strange when the cigarette went "ker-plop!" instead of landing in some sand.

That was our family's first experience with "holy water," and I thought the little old lady entering behind us was going to faint! They quickly seated us in the darkest corner they could find, and it was the only time in his life that my father looked to me like Rodney Dangerfield!

We now return you to our regularly scheduled program...........

 

Thanks for the chuckle 56 Mark. And I believe that, contrary to popular opinion, God has a sense of humor too. After all He did create us in His likeness.

 

Uh, guys, I just read the rules for this lounge and I hope we aren't pushing the envelope. How about it moderator? You might give us a nudge back if were are flying too close to the sun here.

 

Hmm, all this talk got me thinking about something kind of off-topic, and may not have much meaning if you're not Catholic, but, at our church, we've had times when we've had to stop people from desecrating the Eucharist (for those not in the know, the 'bread' wafer Catholics eat during mass. Considered to us the Body of Christ). One example, last Christmas mass we had an individual in line for communion, when he was presented with the Eucharist, he took it in his hand (some Catholics either take the Eucharist in their hand, and then put it into their mouth, or have the priest or minister place it directly on their tongue), he stepped to the side, faked like he had put it into his mouth, and moved along. I didn't notice anything was wrong until I saw one of the ministers running down the aisle with an altar boy in tow. He grabbed the mans arm and told him to either eat the Eucharist or to give it back. The man threw it on the ground and left the church. I later find out that the man, was a supposed Satanist, and Satanic worshippers will use the Eucharist in their rituals, a kind of, "I've got a piece of Jesus and I'm going to burn it." etc. To Catholics, this is just about the worst thing you can do.

Now before everyone goes crazy asking, "How can you believe a wafer is Jesus?" etc., that’s not what I want to get into, and isn't the question at hand, it was merely an example. What I'm asking is, in your denomination, have you had any experiences with others (groups or individuals) actively seeking to tarnish, shame, or destroy your religious beliefs in a way described above? Like I said before, this may not have any meaning at all if you're not Catholic, or Christian, I was just curious to see if there have been any other moments like this.

 

Good one Mark ! I want to start by saying I have the upmost respect for all religions, and that I am not poking fun at the Catholic religion here, by posting a question about it. . . I was raised baptist and was never exposed to the ritualistic worship of the Catholic church. I remember back when I was 20 and dating the cute little gal I was to make my fiance. Well, when your dating a girl you want to marry , there is just that THING, all males do about wanting to please the girls family, at all costs.
One Sat. night my girls Dad said " We are going to church tommorrow, do you want to go with us ? Eager to please and being the submissive pup, I said yes, knowing I would get to be with his daughter another couple of hours, I figured I would be game for that. . He said good, be here at the house, at 9 a.m. in the morning , and we will all ride togther to church. . .
So, Sunday morning we pull up to the "church" OH MY, its the HUGE catholic cathedral, that I had driven by for years, yet had never been inside of. I did not know one thing about what to do in a Catholic church, and my hands got sweaty. We all filed in and sit down on the same bench, side by side. Well, after about a hour of listening to everyone say the same prayer 3 times, over and over, dropping down on that funny little knee board thing, time and time again, my back was killing me. The priest couldnt be feeling any pain, because I watched him pouring wine in to this little golden cup, put a dollie cloth over it, swipe his hand over it, then sip it down, time and time again. Then he would swing a smoke pot around it and do the cross your heart sign, then drink some more wine.
By this time I was feeling like o.k., am going to survive, he just emptied the bottle , so service must be about over. But no, a guy in a long robe brings out another bottle and a big pan that had something in it. The priest then dips his fingers in a bowl of water, shakes it at the big pan, then says a prayer, all in the same motion everyone drops real fast , down on their kness on to those boards bolted to the back of the pews again. All of a sudden I see people stand up and start leaving their seats, I think all RIGHT, its over, but NO, they are going to the front and the priest is now sharing his wine with them, and giving them something out of this big pan he sprinkled water on...
Now am a mess, I know I shouldnt speak out in church and ask what is going on, for fear of being a fool in front of my girls family, BUT everyone is going up front now, and I dont know what to do, go or stay. So, when my girls brother gets up and heads down the aisle, I stay put, I dont know what their doing up there, but they are drinking out of a wine cup, and NOW the priest is putting something on everyones tongue, and I dont want any part of a mans hand on my tongue. But, about that time my girls DAD, slide over to get out, I am in his way, so he nudges me firmly with the side of his knee. O.K, THAT means you get your butt up. So I went to the aisle and followed the line of people like a good sheep . As I got closer I felt a little better, I wasn't a stranger to wine, by any means...
As my turn came the priest stood in front of me and handed me the glass, I took a small swig, not bad wine I thought. Then I stuck my tongue out, and he stuck what by now , I thought was going to be a wafer cracker, because I knew of the wine and break bread ceremony of the last supper. As I closed my mouth, I had to fight the impulsive urge to hurl, as I exited to the front of the church. It was a STYROFOAM wafer, yuck!! .
My girl told me later, that I wasnt supposed to go up front, because I was not Catholic, I told her I knew that, but she should have told her DAD's knee that. Then, she told me I had just had "communion" and it was for catholics only. I told her it seems to me like ,with a church that big, and with the priest having all that gold tableware, they could at least afford real crackers. For some reason I didnt get any "moonlight in the car windshield time", that night. A true story, cross my heart,

 

I agree completely, and I would have tried to get the guy arrested. One thing I cannot abide by is disrespecting someone else's religion. That was not only rude, but scary.

 

Great story Greg!