synthetic gasoline
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: So Cal
I think the Germans made synthetic gas in WWII.
I think making synthetic gas is entirely possible. The question is whether it makes economic sense. There are probably better alternatives at least dollar for dollar at this time, Liquified Natural Gas, Propane etc come to mind.
Don't know that syn gas would have big benefits. What do you think it would do?
I like syn oil but not sure what syn gas would do.
Just my opinions,
Jim Henderson
I think making synthetic gas is entirely possible. The question is whether it makes economic sense. There are probably better alternatives at least dollar for dollar at this time, Liquified Natural Gas, Propane etc come to mind.
Don't know that syn gas would have big benefits. What do you think it would do?
I like syn oil but not sure what syn gas would do.
Just my opinions,
Jim Henderson
Senior User
Joined: May 2003
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From: Maryland
Oil shale has been promoted as an alternate source of gasoline and other similar products for quite some time. The issue is price and how to dispose of the byproducts without undue harm to the environment.
If gas goes to $3 or $4 a gallon or higher all sorts of alternatives may become viable.
Take a look at this web site.
hubbert.mines.edu/news/v98n4/Youngquist.html
Chip
If gas goes to $3 or $4 a gallon or higher all sorts of alternatives may become viable.
Take a look at this web site.
hubbert.mines.edu/news/v98n4/Youngquist.html
Chip
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Iowa
I'd like to see higher octane gasoline. If they could make 110 octane economically, they'd probably already be doing it. But I believe they've overlooked the fact that higher compression engines get better mileage, and higher octane gasoline would help that. If new vehicles were built to take advantage of the higher octane gasoline, demand would be significantly reduced, and the price of gas might actually drop, along with having vehicles with better mileage. I'd like to see 100 octane regular, 105 super, and 110 premium.
Concerning synthetic gasoline, what do you hope to gain? Sure it would be better, you could make quite high octane rated gasoline consistently, but the price point would be way out of line. Look at motor oil. $1 per quart for dino, vs. $4 per quart for true synthetic? I dont feel like paying $4 / gallon for gasoline, no matter how good it is. My truck would have to get 60mpg to make that worth it. And we all know that's not going to happen.
Concerning synthetic gasoline, what do you hope to gain? Sure it would be better, you could make quite high octane rated gasoline consistently, but the price point would be way out of line. Look at motor oil. $1 per quart for dino, vs. $4 per quart for true synthetic? I dont feel like paying $4 / gallon for gasoline, no matter how good it is. My truck would have to get 60mpg to make that worth it. And we all know that's not going to happen.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Running Springs CA
If you want higher mileage, diesel is still the way to go. Compression ignition engines can burn a variety of fuels, not just light fuel oil (traditional diesel fuel).
Synthetic gasoline from natural gas is possible, but way too expensive at todays prices, maybe in 50 years.
Jim
Synthetic gasoline from natural gas is possible, but way too expensive at todays prices, maybe in 50 years.
Jim
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Iowa
You're right, diesel is the way to go for mileage. But many people insist on gasoline engines, so why not optimize them as much as possible? It may cost a little more to refine high test, but we wouldn't need as much of it, leaving more oil for use elsewhere.
How many miles would one need to go to justify the cost of a diesel in terms of mileage?
How many miles would one need to go to justify the cost of a diesel in terms of mileage?
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: So Cal
So you are looking for higher octane thru syn. I wonder if that can be done for a reasonable cost.
Part of the reason we now have low octane gas is that we had to remove the octane boot effects of lead way back in the 70s so that we could make catalytic converters live long enough to make sense for smog control.
Lead is a cheap easy way to boost octane but it kills converters. I suppose you could make a high test syn gas, but I bet it costs plenty.
As far as higher compression improving mileage, yes you will get some improvement, but once again the benifit probably doesn't outweigh the cost. If you want fuel efficiency, take a Toyota hybrid engine and stick it in your 350, maybe it will work ;^)
All comes down to what we are willing to pay.
Just my opinion,
Jim Henderson
Part of the reason we now have low octane gas is that we had to remove the octane boot effects of lead way back in the 70s so that we could make catalytic converters live long enough to make sense for smog control.
Lead is a cheap easy way to boost octane but it kills converters. I suppose you could make a high test syn gas, but I bet it costs plenty.
As far as higher compression improving mileage, yes you will get some improvement, but once again the benifit probably doesn't outweigh the cost. If you want fuel efficiency, take a Toyota hybrid engine and stick it in your 350, maybe it will work ;^)
All comes down to what we are willing to pay.
Just my opinion,
Jim Henderson
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From: Chicago Area
A lot of this is marketing as well as refining capability. Certainly higher compression Otto cycle engines could achieve better mileage, maybe even approaching (very high compression) Diesel cycle engines. But currently, premium gas is marketed as such and at a "too premium" price. You'll never justify the per gallon increase by the mileage improvement.
I'm sure we're capable of synthesizing fuel from various other sources, but like gold from lead, it's not worth the cost.
I'm sure we're capable of synthesizing fuel from various other sources, but like gold from lead, it's not worth the cost.
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From my understanding, gasoline is a mix of several liquid hydrocarbons like tulene, benzene, and even gases like propane, butane and oxygen. Theres LOTS more of both, but I don't know what they are. Seems to me that if you could control exactly what was in it, you could make a gasoline that could suit different uses. It would be much easier to pass emmissions if the gas your burning combusts into less "bad stuff". Also, if you could control it on a moleculer level, you could arange atoms differently to add different traits. Like a gasoline that greatly resists knocking, but still burns like normal gas or maybe it could be arranged to produce a higher compression by producing different gases. I might be completely wrong on what gas is(or all together), if I am, please enlighten me.
rusty70f100-I'd like to see much higher octane pump gas too. It makes me sad to think that someday we will have to buy gallon jugs of gasoline off the shelf of an auto parts store. It will probably be something like 50 octane too.
rusty70f100-I'd like to see much higher octane pump gas too. It makes me sad to think that someday we will have to buy gallon jugs of gasoline off the shelf of an auto parts store. It will probably be something like 50 octane too.
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Diesel is a totally different animal though..its almost impossible to compare the two for christ sake. It cost $60 to change the oil in a Diesel vs what, $40.00 at the most for a Mobil 1 change on a car? Besides, they are noisy, stinky, and very high polluters. I hope diesel runs out someday.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Iowa
Originally posted by mustangsvt
Diesel is a totally different animal though..its almost impossible to compare the two for christ sake. It cost $60 to change the oil in a Diesel vs what, $40.00 at the most for a Mobil 1 change on a car? Besides, they are noisy, stinky, and very high polluters. I hope diesel runs out someday.
Diesel is a totally different animal though..its almost impossible to compare the two for christ sake. It cost $60 to change the oil in a Diesel vs what, $40.00 at the most for a Mobil 1 change on a car? Besides, they are noisy, stinky, and very high polluters. I hope diesel runs out someday.
Unfortunately, if they've got any kind of crude oil they can change it into what they need. It will cost more than simply separating it out though.
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From: On the farm near Loveland
Re: synthetic gasoline
Originally posted by mamafedmepaintchips
Anyone think its possible? It would sure have some advantages!
Anyone think its possible? It would sure have some advantages!
It's caled ethanol. Works fine with minimal modification in almost any gasoline engine. Has an octane rating of ~120, too.
Go for it.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
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Hmmm. If this link is correct it's already happening. Imagine, mining old landfills for raw materials. Having your suppliers pay you to take the raw materials and then selling the finished product to the public. Check it out.
http://www.changingworld tech.com
You can also do a google search on 'gasoling from turkey guts' or 'chaning world technologies'
http://www.changingworld tech.com
You can also do a google search on 'gasoling from turkey guts' or 'chaning world technologies'
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Iowa
Ethanol is good, in terms of octane rating. The only problem with it is that it has less BTU's than gasoline, so if used exclusively in a vehicle, the mileage would go down. If the compression ratio were raised as much as possible with it, it may be comparable with gasoline in terms of mileage. Right now the best use for it that I can see is to boost the octane rating of gasoline, which it does well. I would like to see the normal 93 octane boosted to like 96 or 97 through the use of ethanol though.