Monster Cable Hype
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 649
Likes: 1
From: Monterey bay area
re:The thing I was getting at is that you can buy cables from walmart (scosche) for example, and still have the same quality if not better than monster.
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Scosche makes good products...just like Esoteric Audio and EFX....
I agree with your statement....
re:using lamp cords
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LMAO!!!
deftonz, I would also agree with you on the RCA quality.....it is best to shop around for good quality sets.....I usually use the Phoenix Gold, Stinger
or Esoteric Audio....(depending on which my supplier can provide the best deals on at the time....all are good quality)
The tangible difference in sound.....is where you hit a bump and DON'T hear
static or popping because component interconnects aren't breaking contact due to poor cables/connections.
The audible sound is negligible....but the RTA doesn't lie....
There is no substitue for using the correct gauge cable or good shielded signal cable.
the key here is to avoid this:
re:The bitterness of buying a product you're unhappy with long outlasts the joy of having saved a few dollars.
And the bitterness of redoing something you know you should have done right the first time far outlasts the extra dollars you thought you saved. LOL!!! I know from experience :-)
Have fun!!!
-----------------------------
Scosche makes good products...just like Esoteric Audio and EFX....
I agree with your statement....
re:using lamp cords
-----------
LMAO!!!
deftonz, I would also agree with you on the RCA quality.....it is best to shop around for good quality sets.....I usually use the Phoenix Gold, Stinger
or Esoteric Audio....(depending on which my supplier can provide the best deals on at the time....all are good quality)
The tangible difference in sound.....is where you hit a bump and DON'T hear
static or popping because component interconnects aren't breaking contact due to poor cables/connections.
The audible sound is negligible....but the RTA doesn't lie....
There is no substitue for using the correct gauge cable or good shielded signal cable.
the key here is to avoid this:
re:The bitterness of buying a product you're unhappy with long outlasts the joy of having saved a few dollars.
And the bitterness of redoing something you know you should have done right the first time far outlasts the extra dollars you thought you saved. LOL!!! I know from experience :-)
Have fun!!!
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,799
Likes: 104
From: Ashland City, TN
Yea, the lamp cord is kinda a like. Funny ha ha throw out.
keep it cool guys.
Strand count is very important.
but small strands and small wire all together isnt that good.
Be smart, conservative on buying.
Buying smart can allow you to try out 2 different types.
Just remember, if when you strip the wire, and lots of lil wires come off. That wire is to damn small. Get wire with thicker strands.
Well, unless you got a cheezly lil wallmart stereo.
Here. lets try this again
Cheep stere. Cable dosn't matter, unless its to thick.
Good stereo. use decent cable. No cheepie thin crap. Your pushing power though there. Let it move!
Think of wire like a highway.
If the road is right, you enjoy the drive.
if the road is to small, its a tough trip.
If its to big, you get bored.
keep it cool guys.
Strand count is very important.
but small strands and small wire all together isnt that good.
Be smart, conservative on buying.
Buying smart can allow you to try out 2 different types.
Just remember, if when you strip the wire, and lots of lil wires come off. That wire is to damn small. Get wire with thicker strands.
Well, unless you got a cheezly lil wallmart stereo.
Here. lets try this again
Cheep stere. Cable dosn't matter, unless its to thick.
Good stereo. use decent cable. No cheepie thin crap. Your pushing power though there. Let it move!
Think of wire like a highway.
If the road is right, you enjoy the drive.
if the road is to small, its a tough trip.
If its to big, you get bored.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,758
Likes: 7
From: colorado
i sold home and car audio gear for 18 years (got out of the business 1 year ago)i have heard a differance in cheaper cables compared to monster cables. they are not just "lampcord" with a fancy cover. plus some guy comparing 16 and 22 gauge wire-if you have a decent system you would be a fool for using wire that small. all i can say if there are so many other cables that are half the price of monster and are just as good if not bettter than monster- how does monster stay in business? is it magic
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,483
Likes: 1
From: Northern California
Talyn, you wrote:
Just remember, if when you strip the wire, and lots of lil wires come off. That wire is to damn small. Get wire with thicker strands.
As a matter of fact, It's just the opposite. The more numerous and the smaller the strands within a wire cable,the better the cable. Current travels on the outside of wire, therefore more strands give you more outer surface area for the current to travel on, therefore greater current handeling capabilities.
Just remember, if when you strip the wire, and lots of lil wires come off. That wire is to damn small. Get wire with thicker strands.
As a matter of fact, It's just the opposite. The more numerous and the smaller the strands within a wire cable,the better the cable. Current travels on the outside of wire, therefore more strands give you more outer surface area for the current to travel on, therefore greater current handeling capabilities.
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: NoVa
Originally posted by wlihntr
i sold home and car audio gear for 18 years (got out of the business 1 year ago)i have heard a differance in cheaper cables compared to monster cables. they are not just "lampcord" with a fancy cover. plus some guy comparing 16 and 22 gauge wire-if you have a decent system you would be a fool for using wire that small. all i can say if there are so many other cables that are half the price of monster and are just as good if not bettter than monster- how does monster stay in business? is it magic
i sold home and car audio gear for 18 years (got out of the business 1 year ago)i have heard a differance in cheaper cables compared to monster cables. they are not just "lampcord" with a fancy cover. plus some guy comparing 16 and 22 gauge wire-if you have a decent system you would be a fool for using wire that small. all i can say if there are so many other cables that are half the price of monster and are just as good if not bettter than monster- how does monster stay in business? is it magic
First off, I posted earlier saying that this article was from 1983, so I'm not arguing that lamp cord is the same, I'm just saying there are alot cheaper than monster that are just as good. If you want to disagree with me, you really need to do an experiment where you have no clue which cables are which. Let's use Scosche like I used earlier from walmart, approx. half the price of monster. I'd put money on it (as I'm sure most people here would) that you could not hear the difference. I'm talking just regular good ol 16awg speaker wire!
"How does monster stay in business? is it magic"
how does bose stay in business? the same way. Bose is the leader in speaker sales worldwide, noone is even close to the number of sales that they have. Is bose the best? NOT EVEN CLOSE! I personally have nothing against bose, they make decent stuff, but not the best! It's normally the people that work in your local circuit city/best buy/meyer emco that really push the monster cable. They're mass distributors, that's how they make money!
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,758
Likes: 7
From: colorado
i have done blind tests and myself and many customers i have sold to heard the differance. as far as the 16 gauge wire let me make this more clear, 16 gauge wire is junk, you will never hear the differance in wire that small if that is what you want or need to run than use what ever you want because you will never hear a differance until you start using a 14,12, or even 10 gauge.as far as staying in business (really think about this) do you think a company could stay in business for 25years on hype and mass distrubution. the product must be worth what in costs otherwise they would not be around
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,799
Likes: 104
From: Ashland City, TN
Wlihntr is right about that.
and yes, outer surface is important. But its also easier to damage the smaller wires.
if you check any of the larger more expencive cables that have really good sound and quiality. The wire isn't really thin and easy to break or hard to strip. If the wire is to small. Wire size all deals with resistance and current flow. Cheep stereoes can use cheep thin cable. Good stereo's need a lil beef, and a lil bit better cable.
I use double sheathed cable. Inner sheath is air sealed. so no air can oxyidise the cable, and the outer one is for protection and cosmetics. The cable is thick, and the cable bends are good. Its extreemly easy to use. and gives great signal. I can tell the difference with this cable if i use cheep cable.
and yes, outer surface is important. But its also easier to damage the smaller wires.
if you check any of the larger more expencive cables that have really good sound and quiality. The wire isn't really thin and easy to break or hard to strip. If the wire is to small. Wire size all deals with resistance and current flow. Cheep stereoes can use cheep thin cable. Good stereo's need a lil beef, and a lil bit better cable.
I use double sheathed cable. Inner sheath is air sealed. so no air can oxyidise the cable, and the outer one is for protection and cosmetics. The cable is thick, and the cable bends are good. Its extreemly easy to use. and gives great signal. I can tell the difference with this cable if i use cheep cable.
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: NoVa
haha, people crack me up sometimes! I never once said 16awg is the best either, i just said for an example, ok, we can use 10awg for you all then to make you happy. I think you guys are still stuck on the "lamp cable" part. c'mon now, we're past that!
"as far as staying in business (really think about this) do you think a company could stay in business for 25years on hype and mass distrubution."
Mass distribution is how most of these companies are staying in business and being profitable. Im not saying that monster cable sucks, what i've been trying to say is that there are many others that are comparable that cost less. A bunch of others on this thread have listed other brands that are just as good too. I guess monster has "cornered" the speaker wire market and noone can make something as good as them??? Trust me, it's not a big secret that monster is holding from these other brands!
and as jimmyj said earlier:
"Trucks are not the ideal critical listening environment. We're never going to hear the soundstage, imaging or depth that we can hear in a really fine home system."
AMEN brother!
"as far as staying in business (really think about this) do you think a company could stay in business for 25years on hype and mass distrubution."
Mass distribution is how most of these companies are staying in business and being profitable. Im not saying that monster cable sucks, what i've been trying to say is that there are many others that are comparable that cost less. A bunch of others on this thread have listed other brands that are just as good too. I guess monster has "cornered" the speaker wire market and noone can make something as good as them??? Trust me, it's not a big secret that monster is holding from these other brands!
and as jimmyj said earlier:
"Trucks are not the ideal critical listening environment. We're never going to hear the soundstage, imaging or depth that we can hear in a really fine home system."
AMEN brother!
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Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,483
Likes: 1
From: Northern California
Yea,
your right jclarke there are alot of cables out there just as good as Monster. The Monster people have invested alot in marketing and distributing. This is probably the big reason they sell more, not because they are better.
Talyn, it sounds like you are confusing wire size with cable size, I'm referring to high quality cables with the cable being composed of fine strand wires, not cheap cable. The hype about sealed wires and oxygen free copper is alot of hooey too, do you solder on all your ends and use only adhesive backed shrink tubing over the terminals along with all your soldering, shrinking, etc being performed in a oxygen free environment? Or do you use standard shrink wrap or crappy crimp ons or no terminals at all? The air has probably gotten into your cables and they havent rotted yet, have they? Just another marketing ploy. But I'm sure someone will respond with good enough ears to hear the difference in these cables too. Just getting caught up the ads can convince you your hearing or not hearing something...as in the cables providing a velvety black background, suprisingly smooth unstrained clarity and an unmatchable dynamic range transcending all other cables on the market. Yea right.
your right jclarke there are alot of cables out there just as good as Monster. The Monster people have invested alot in marketing and distributing. This is probably the big reason they sell more, not because they are better.
Talyn, it sounds like you are confusing wire size with cable size, I'm referring to high quality cables with the cable being composed of fine strand wires, not cheap cable. The hype about sealed wires and oxygen free copper is alot of hooey too, do you solder on all your ends and use only adhesive backed shrink tubing over the terminals along with all your soldering, shrinking, etc being performed in a oxygen free environment? Or do you use standard shrink wrap or crappy crimp ons or no terminals at all? The air has probably gotten into your cables and they havent rotted yet, have they? Just another marketing ploy. But I'm sure someone will respond with good enough ears to hear the difference in these cables too. Just getting caught up the ads can convince you your hearing or not hearing something...as in the cables providing a velvety black background, suprisingly smooth unstrained clarity and an unmatchable dynamic range transcending all other cables on the market. Yea right.
Last edited by 94F150-408; Jan 27, 2004 at 07:32 PM.
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: NoVa
i agree with ya 100%. Even about the oxygen free wires! it isn't the freedom of oxygen in copper wire that makes any difference. The process of removing oxygen also removes the impurity of iron and it's this impurity that can cause the resistance to be slightly higher. The difference in resistance between copper wire and oxygen free copper wire is too small to be significant for speaker wiring.
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Junior User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: NoVa
Something else i needed to address was the cable size from earlier, it was said that 16-guage is junk. People forget a big word when it comes to speakers......."RESISTANCE" a 16awg wire will support a 2-ohm load up to 12 feet with less than 5% resistance of the speaker impedance. Therefore, if I only needed to go 8 feet in my truck to a speaker from my amp, a 16awg would work beautifully, and would hear no difference if you used a 12 guage.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,483
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From: Northern California
Very true jc, there are mathametical equasions for all electrical properties, and unfortuatly some slick ad or salesman can convince some that their product can somehow outperform scientific facts. As in, if all you need is 16 gauge, buy good 16 gauge. 14, 12, or whatever larger size cant and wont make a difference in sound quality.
Oh yea, agreed on the O2 free wire, I guess I wasent clear that there were two points in that paragraph. Tayln said that his cables have a air sealed inner sheath to prevent oxidation from the air...that was what my description was referring to, on how you would need to maintain that environment for it to have any validity at all, not that it would make any difference in the sound, longevity, or anything at all for that matter!
Oh yea, agreed on the O2 free wire, I guess I wasent clear that there were two points in that paragraph. Tayln said that his cables have a air sealed inner sheath to prevent oxidation from the air...that was what my description was referring to, on how you would need to maintain that environment for it to have any validity at all, not that it would make any difference in the sound, longevity, or anything at all for that matter!
Last edited by 94F150-408; Jan 27, 2004 at 08:39 PM.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,758
Likes: 7
From: colorado
you can talk specs. until you are blue in the face. the truth is that the human ear can hear far more than any testing equip. can measure(at this time at least) trust the ear(toss the specs) thats the only thing that matters
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,483
Likes: 1
From: Northern California
yea, your right...how about some Idaho ocean front property, trust me it's just a perceived reality that you have about no ocean front property in Idaho. Maybe if I raise the price and give it a velvety black background....