solid axils vs. ifs
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Morehead, KY
solid axils vs. ifs
hey this might sound kinda dumb but why are solid front axles prefered to ifs for off roading? to me i dont see any advantages to them other than simplicity of the design. any enlightenment would really help. thanks
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: S/C Texas
For one, a solid axle looks meaner, and you can lift a solid axle as far as you like. IFS is very expensive to suspension lift more than 2 1/2 inches. But I have the IFS and sure wont go to the trouble raise it more than 2 1/2 inches, plenty for me. The lack of ease in lifting an IFS system is fine by me, increased handling on road makes me happy.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: Houston, Texas
On a solid axle, when you shove one wheel up into the wheelwell, where does the other tire go? Same question on an independent suspension?
SA=Tire is forced to the ground
IS=Tire might go to the ground
Walker Evans learned this lesson the hard way.
SA=Tire is forced to the ground
IS=Tire might go to the ground
Walker Evans learned this lesson the hard way.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: On the road in Ohio
IFS's use 4 cv joints which means rubber boots that can tear,apew grease, everywhere, but if you clean them and spray with a lubercate they will last . solid axles also reqiure maintence,greasing brearings checking seals. do solid axles have electronic engagement like the IFS ?
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From: Florida Hill Country
My opinion is to build up a 78 or 79 Bronco if you want a solid axle rig. One way to get 5" lift on a TTB is to install custom TTB axle housings. Its pricey but so is the System II SkyJacker 6" with extended radius arms and rear springs.
I don't rock crawl my Bronco or do huge mud runs so I'm not motivated to do an SAS swap on it. If I score the parts cheap enough I might reconsider. As already mentioned, I like the 78-79 Bronco so I would build one of those up. Same for a F100 SWB.
The Big advantage the SA has over the TTB is that the TTB Dana 44 is limited to 35 in tires. Go over that with lockers and lower gears and there will be breakage. The axles can be beefed up some however.
I don't rock crawl my Bronco or do huge mud runs so I'm not motivated to do an SAS swap on it. If I score the parts cheap enough I might reconsider. As already mentioned, I like the 78-79 Bronco so I would build one of those up. Same for a F100 SWB.
The Big advantage the SA has over the TTB is that the TTB Dana 44 is limited to 35 in tires. Go over that with lockers and lower gears and there will be breakage. The axles can be beefed up some however.
Last edited by rlh; Jan 10, 2004 at 10:27 PM.
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Postmaster
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From: Pittsburgh
TTB doesn't actually quite count as IFS or as a solid axle. TTB has more weight tranfer to the other wheel than IFS, but not as much as a solid axle (except at full compression). Also when a solid axle articulate you don't lose any ground clearance at the axle. With IFS you lose ALOT of clearance at the axle, and again TTB is in the middle,but leaning towards SA. With TTB you might lose an inch, but that's at the tube, not the diff housing. the diff housig moves with the wheel and axle shaft to maintain most of its clearance. At maximum articulation both of the axles bottom out on their stops (in stock trim) and act just like a solid axle. For all intents and purposes TTB acts like a solid axle until you need to lift it, then it acts between monotube and truly IF suspensions. TTB is a very ingenious design and works great until you want to rock crawl or run huge tires. Don't discount TTB just because it LOOKS independent.
In short TTB acts like IFS on the road, but acts more like a solid axle off road. Now, if they just had a TTB 60. . . .
Justin
In short TTB acts like IFS on the road, but acts more like a solid axle off road. Now, if they just had a TTB 60. . . .
Justin
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Junior User
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: canada
the only problem with the ttb i had was when the truck was loaded down and the front end started to cycle the oil pan would have contact with the trail. i have a motor kill wired to the oil pressure senser for this reason. ttb breakage and 1 oil pan was all it took to put a 60 under my mule
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: Auburn,Al
Originally posted by hoxiii
TTB doesn't actually quite count as IFS or as a solid axle. TTB has more weight tranfer to the other wheel than IFS, but not as much as a solid axle (except at full compression). Also when a solid axle articulate you don't lose any ground clearance at the axle. With IFS you lose ALOT of clearance at the axle, and again TTB is in the middle,but leaning towards SA. With TTB you might lose an inch, but that's at the tube, not the diff housing. the diff housig moves with the wheel and axle shaft to maintain most of its clearance. At maximum articulation both of the axles bottom out on their stops (in stock trim) and act just like a solid axle. For all intents and purposes TTB acts like a solid axle until you need to lift it, then it acts between monotube and truly IF suspensions. TTB is a very ingenious design and works great until you want to rock crawl or run huge tires. Don't discount TTB just because it LOOKS independent.
In short TTB acts like IFS on the road, but acts more like a solid axle off road. Now, if they just had a TTB 60. . . .
Justin
TTB doesn't actually quite count as IFS or as a solid axle. TTB has more weight tranfer to the other wheel than IFS, but not as much as a solid axle (except at full compression). Also when a solid axle articulate you don't lose any ground clearance at the axle. With IFS you lose ALOT of clearance at the axle, and again TTB is in the middle,but leaning towards SA. With TTB you might lose an inch, but that's at the tube, not the diff housing. the diff housig moves with the wheel and axle shaft to maintain most of its clearance. At maximum articulation both of the axles bottom out on their stops (in stock trim) and act just like a solid axle. For all intents and purposes TTB acts like a solid axle until you need to lift it, then it acts between monotube and truly IF suspensions. TTB is a very ingenious design and works great until you want to rock crawl or run huge tires. Don't discount TTB just because it LOOKS independent.
In short TTB acts like IFS on the road, but acts more like a solid axle off road. Now, if they just had a TTB 60. . . .
Justin
i see what your saying about the punkin moving like a SFA
and TTB sucks, it wears out tires, you cant keep balljoints in them and they are just weak, but im partial to 1 ton and up solid stuff
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From: Florida Hill Country
It depends on what your going to do with a rig. If your going to put high miles on a 1 ton locked low gear conversion you better have a fuel truck following.
The problem is ball joints. They suck period regardless of the rig.
The thing with TTB is it attempts to keep both wheels in contact with the surface. You don't really want to much pressure on one wheel because crap will break especially with a locker. TTB can be built into a all around rig that can be used as a daily driver. The tires have to be kept to 35" or below on TTB. Also, the usual way to lift Bronco's is probably not the best way.
A dedicated trail rig is a Truck of another color.
There are good reason for SAS. I see too many guys doing it because of the Lemming effect and they end up with big axles and tires and don't even have lockers.
Novel idea, build up a 78 or 79 Bronco or F150 into a dedicated trail rig.
I like both systems, just depends. And my response is in the context of Broncos and F150 SWB.
The problem is ball joints. They suck period regardless of the rig.
The thing with TTB is it attempts to keep both wheels in contact with the surface. You don't really want to much pressure on one wheel because crap will break especially with a locker. TTB can be built into a all around rig that can be used as a daily driver. The tires have to be kept to 35" or below on TTB. Also, the usual way to lift Bronco's is probably not the best way.
A dedicated trail rig is a Truck of another color.
There are good reason for SAS. I see too many guys doing it because of the Lemming effect and they end up with big axles and tires and don't even have lockers.
Novel idea, build up a 78 or 79 Bronco or F150 into a dedicated trail rig.
I like both systems, just depends. And my response is in the context of Broncos and F150 SWB.
Last edited by rlh; Jan 11, 2004 at 02:19 PM.
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I have to agree with Jeremyh, Walker Evans is a top competitor who built a sweet ifs rig for rockcrawling and invested a lot of dough in a hybrid front end to try and correct for problems. Then he realized it sucked and slung a sa under his rig.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Pittsburgh
when one side of the TTB axle goes up it pushes up on the spring and the pivot mount, which then pushes down on the frame and the other pivot mount. the downward motion onto the other side of the frame compresses the other spring and pivot mount and transfers weight downward. This is because the pivot mount for the right axle is offset to the left and vice versa. The transfer is slight UNTIL you hit the bumpstops. Once you bottom one side of the axle it throws all of is weight onto the other side of the axle and keeps it planted. It's not as good at it as an SA, but it's alot better than a traditional IFS.
Justin
Justin