I have a 1973 Ford Country Sedan in 90% condition with a 400 and C-6 tranny. I bought it in Nov 2002 and have performed many changes but now I have problems.
I can't adjust breaker point ignitions so the first to go was the distributor and in it's place I spec'd a Dura-Spark Type 2 distributor and ECM from a 1978 (brand new). Then I upgraded plug wires to high performance and new plugs to boot with the gap from the 1972 Ford spec's. I retarded the timing to somewhere around 14 BTDC.
Then I upgraded the electrics from solid state to electronic regulator. Kept same alternator though. Wonder if I should upgrade that too? Coil replaced by stock new coil.
Next was the carb and intake manifold. I installed Edelbrocks Performer 400 intake #3771 (EGR- not hooked up), and Edelbrocks 4BBL carb #1406, and the Edelbrock chrome air breather assy. I have distributor advance hooked up to timed port of carb. EGR was unhooked because it made idle speed to go way too slow, and overheated engine.

Now I have rough idle, and extreem spark knock through slow to moderate acceleration. Goes away when heavy throttle is used. Also, when spark knocking, extreem amounts of black smoke pours from exhaust pipe and goes away when throttle is let up. I have tried different plugs, changing fuel adjustments on front of carb at bottom, and even tried different ignition timing adjustments to no avail. I use pump gas with a minimum of 90 octane rating. I installed brand new stock fuel pump. Nothing gives, I just don't understand whats going on.

This 31 year-old station wagon only has 103K original miles on it. And outside of needing a new front pump on transmission and axle bearing replaced on right axle, new suspension, and new steering components, this car needs nothing and looks almost new. I just don't understand whats going on. If I were to keep car, I would replace engine with long block but engine is in excellent shape. No bottom end bearing problems, no smoke other than fuel and looked very good when replacing intake. Anybody have any ideas. I need to get car in tip top shape so I can sell it for the car of my dreams has just came available. Another thing to add, this engine uses no oil and has no leaks. I'll take any suggestions if offered.

 

Are you using a Duraspark-type coil? Those put out much higher voltage and allow the plug gap to be increased for better combustion.

Also, your timing is way too advanced at 14 BTDC. Try 10 BTDC and see if that helps. If it still pings, retard it more in 2-degree increments until the pinging goes away.

The screws on the carb front control mixture only at idle. Check the Edelbrock manual for your carb for instructions on how to adjust the main circuit metering.

 

Static timing should be set at 6 degrees BTDC. 14 is way too much and is the reason for the knocking, over heating, and the black smoke.

Without the EGR, the carb is running rich. Set the timing correctly, and hook it back up.

If this doesn't cure the problem, then you have seriously screwed up that car's ignition system somehow.

What do you mean that you "can't adjust points?" Is it a physical limitation? It sounds to me (from all the changes you have made on this car) that you have enough mechanical knowhow to do it.

 

You may have blown the power valve also.

 

With near certainty, Holleys are equipped with power valves, not the AFB; as this one of the reasons I put the Holley on the shelf and the AFB under the hood.

 

I appreciate all the suggestions you guys make but I can't believe that I pissed off so many people so fast. I will reply to questions now.

1. Yes I used a dura-spark 2 coil and resistor. And thanks for the carb mixture adjustment info.

2. I will change static timing as soon as I'm healthy enough to go back outside. I'm suffering with pneumonia at the moment. As far as the EGR, I want to hook it back up but am unsure how to do it or better yet, where to hook it up. Timed or not timed??? And as for your question about points, I hate them, don't like messing with them and thats why I went with electronic ignition.

3. The Edelbrock 1406 carb is brand spanking new and better not have any problems what so ever. Or I'm gonna be like Paul T Sr and start throwing things. Just kiddin' Nice thought though.

4. I only use Edelbrock now, the last two Holleys I had I threw out the window while driving down the highway. The street advenger nearly cost me an expensive car when it caught fire. The other Holley stranded me in the middle of an intersection during rush hour. Never again.

Guys, I work on diesels and had other gas engine mechanics with me or around me when I did my work. If I could figure out how to mount the Cummins 5.9L diesel in my 1973 Ford station wagon, I would never ever again use another gas engine in my life. But it can't be done reasonably so I will tolerate the car until it is sold. I'm just terribly upset that something so simple can go so wrong on such a good motor. Once I'm able to leave quarentine zone, I will attempt to make changes based on information you guys have graciously offered.

Ecuri I want to comment about something that just caught my eye. You quote the seven "P's". And you are absolutely right and as reassurance, I did exactly that. The changes I made were documented and researched many months before the changes occured. And in my case it can be something as simple a timing adjustment or something more costly. I tried to take the best attributes from every 400 cid engine that Ford ever built and put them all on one engine, mine.

If I can get this 400 engine to run right, I have plans to have installed the Edelbrock 400 performer cam package and timing gear and chain, and water pump. I also have plans to have new heads put on this engine for additional power like the 400 had in 1971. That will include replacing pistons with new ones from Federal Mogul. I believe the part number for the 400 is: L2466F.
I have already noticed some increase in performance and with the rest of the built should pan out around 275-300 horsepower.

"Ever seen a grocery gitter fly"???

 

I see you ae using a 1406 so forget about power valves. The EGR should not do anything to your idle since the EGR is not active at idle. Some of that additional power in 1971 may be due to a change in measuring methods. The flat top pistons that were used in 1971 are no longer available. You may find a few sets of Badger, Ohio, or Ertel pistons on eBay at times. You can find lots of info on pistons here with the search function.

 

I have to add one more thought. I just spent some incredible time reading the thread "stroked 400" and came away with more information than I have learned so far. As it appears, I'm not the only person with a Ford 400 with this problem. Other threads have called my problem "pinging" or "detonation" which is apparently caused from too much compression, or undersized exhaust ports in the head, or even heavily carboned pistons and cylinders which is causing way too much heat to remain behind causing next fuel infusion to ignite before it's supposed to. It's going to take more research and some compression ratio testing to look for clues.
I get the impression that just by rebuilding engine with ceramic coated pistons, replacing head with aluminum head, in addition to increasing diameter of exhaust pipes may very well eliminate my pinging problems altogether except for one problem. No-one to my knowledge has ever built an aluminum head for the Ford 400 engine. Darnit. In addition to above mentioned items, it's beginning to sound like I should go ahead and replace stock camshaft with the Edelbrock performer 400 cam package.

I really love this 335 series Ford 400 but it's beginning to sound like alot of work and alot of $$$ to make it run right. Sounds like I should just switch to a 385 series 429/460 Ford engine. I have an engine builder located in the state of Washington who is a builder of the 429/460 Ford engine stock/HiPo for just around $1200 to $1500 dollars. They also have the 400 stock/HiPo but if I'm experience now, what to say I won't down the road with another one??? Maybe a swap is in order. The 385 series 429 Ford V-8 is my preference based on former experience. Just have to keep eye on timing chain. LOL.

"Ever seen a grocery gitter fly"??? LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL.

 

I'm sure the debate between beefing up a 335 engine or swapping in a 429/460 is and will continue to rage in another forum. All I can suggest is compare the price of a swap kit and engine (for the 429/460 swap), to the price of getting a 400 (which you already have) to produce what you want for driveability and performance.


-The 400 has the longer rods and will achieve it's torque peak lower in the rpm range than the 429/460, however how it's built will be the main factor on getting more power out of it than the bigger engines.

A 429/460 will add another 150+ lbs. to your front end as well so you might want to ensure that that you don't turn it into a low-rider!

 

Thanks JB, my heart tells me to call up Washington state and order a brand new Ford 400 cid HiPerf engine and use the new Edelbrock intake and carb I currently have. This is a long block and I can get it for around $1100. The 31 year old engine I have only has 103,000 original miles on it but I'm now learning that there may heavy carbon deposits on the pistons and in the head ports. This may in turn lead to higher compressions, higher temperatures in the chamber which can cause detonation or pinging.

I'm not a gas engine mechanic or even a rocket scientist but this does make perfect sense to me. The part that makes my eyes turn into a river is the fact that I'm doing this work on a 31 year old Ford station wagon, that is in nearly new condition, I paid $1300 for the car last year, put over $1000 in the engine compartment, $600 in a steering rebuild (parts, bushings ect...) $100 in axle bearing replacements, and several hundred in the replacement of the suspension system.

I still need a C6 tranny front pump, a new paint job, heavier stiff wall tires, and now another engine that will cost around $1800 (engine, install). I will have around $6500 invested in a car that no-one else cares about, that I'm going to be stuck with for many more years than I wanted. However it is funny to mention how many people chase me down everyday trying to buy my car.

I would like to sell it but only with a clear conscience. There is another vehicle that I've been after for years that just came available this past weekend that I really want more than anything but have no money for it. And now I'm unable to work cause I'm quarentined to my bedroom with pneumonia. I've been here since friday and don't know when it will end.

If I could figure out a quick fix to eliminate or excuse me, "hide" the pinging, then I could sell the car and let someone else deal with it. I really want this other car/limo/bus/stage coach or whatever you call it. I can say that it's beautiful, black, and has less than 40,000 on the odometer for a 1988. The ??? I'm looking at has been garaged its entire life, shines like a crystal, and streams like a Boeing 707 brand new off the assy line. And since I can't afford a Greyhound, this other car is the next best thing but I must fix my Ford 400 engine first so I can sell the car. I feel like I'm between a rock and a mountain.

 

I don't know what you mean about "pissing people off" but the one thing that rankled me a bit was (and is) your firm belief that this car had "something wrong with it" before you bought it and saved it. I'll bet it ran just fine when you got it. Now that you did something to screw it up with all your "mods" you believe the engine must be replaced or rebuilt.

I understand the desire to improve the motor and make it better, but a person needs to understand what he has done and why what he did caused the problems, not throw up his hands and say it's time to rebuild or replace the motor, like he couldn't possibly have had anything to do with it.

 

Dear Scroob, to answer your question with the best possible attitude, there was a problem with motor that developed shortly after I bought car. The original EGR plate was destroyed due to age, and Ford motor company personally told me to kiss off. The problem was mine and they washed they're hands of the problem.

Also the intake manifold had a hole in it. Between the two problems, the engine ran rough, and consumed so much gasoline that I bought virtual stock in crude oil. I approached Ford and many, many parts houses about the parts I needed and was told that these parts are obsolete and I would have no luck finding them. So in my extensive research to save a perfectly good engine, I found the parts at Edelbrock. Now as far as the ignition system, there is no difference between the breaker point distributor and the dura-spark except the obvious, no adjustments or service needed. I did the entire install of the system and had a gas engine mechanic to hook up the power wires to the car to bring life to the lifeless. The system performs flawlessly. I am only so grateful.

As to the fact that the original owner never went anywhere is testimony to the cars exceptional condition and the reason I even bought the vehicle in the first place. It really turns heads. But the way it looks on the outside doesn't mean that the internal parts of the engine can't be suffering from excessive carbon build-up which was evident once old intake was removed. That didn't take place in the short few months after I bought the car. But there is light at the end of this tunnel. A testiment that I continue to learn something new each day I live.

Just five hours ago, Edelbrock offered me some advise which I bought into real quick and is worth noting. When investigated, is was learned that the 1406 carb I bought was not in fact set up correctly for my particular application. The metering rod is too small. The engine is buring way too lean, which is causing the pinging and light to moderate throttle. They offered that I purchase the calibration kit #1487 which I found at AutoZone, and in that kit it would contain the parts I need to feed more fuel into the carb.

Upon looking at the supplied charts for this carb, I could either go 1-rich in the power mode, or 1-rich in the cruise mode, or even 1.5-rich in both power and cruise modes. I'm choosing the later. And once I'm healthy enough to go back outside, I'm going to make the switch to the larger metering rods and readjust timing from 14 BTDC to 6 BTDC. As far as hooking up the EGR, I need charts first to determine where to run the vacuum hoses.

For a trucker, I'm not totally stupid (except when convienent) but making a grocery gitter go fast is not rocket science.

What was stupid was the mechanic who took his revenge on me because I refused to destroy my car so that he could have my motor for his Ford Bronco. For judgement, I think his fingers should be cut-off so that he never does this to another person.

Now that I have the information I need, I'm still going to have engine torn-down and looked at. I want to know what kind of shape it is in internally and catch any problems before they become issues. I would also like to have that hi-performance camshaft kit just so I can see what exactly this engine really is capable of. Then I'd like to hook bumpers with a Big Dodge with a Cummins diesel and drag his hiny around the block a couple of times just for fun. Now thats Ford tough.

 

Once you get the obvious issues fixed, do a compression, vacuum, and oil pressure test. That will tell you about the health of your engine without having to take it apart. I pesonnally would block the e.g.r off as I have never seen them do anything except leak and clog the intake ports with carbon. I blocked mine and it had no adverse affect on emissions.

B.T.W. , the Edel. intake, cam, and timing set work very well!

 

Since I seem to have a lot of time on my hands right now, I've done a lot of reading on many different issues. One of them being EGR's and they're purpose. While EGR's have been a pain since inception, they do serve a purpose when working correctly, and that is to lower the temperature in the combustion chamber.

Just last year (2002) when EPA mandated moving up plans to lower emmisions with EGR systems for commercial diesel engines which was not to take effect until 2006, everyone from truck owners, dealers and the makers of the engines went into immediate panic mode. While the timing couldn't have been worse, fact is that everyone pulled together and came up with products that made EPA happy but only temporarily. While it is true that I am slightly out of touch at the moment, I believe that the fear was unfounded and in fact these engines at the moment are running great with no adverse effects. Testing and real world use are still taking place and it might be another year or two before these engines start aging. Remember that commercial diesel engines aren't broke in until around 500,000 miles and most diesels run well in excess of 1-million miles.

By hooking the EGR back up on my Ford 400 engine, it will ensure that my engine will pass emissions for another few years yet until EPA can find a way to force people like me with old, classic and antique motor vehicles to park for good. Wouldn't you think motorcycles would look funny with cat converters? Just give EPA time, they'll find a way to do it. Why did I add that, well I also have a Honda CB750K4, (1974).

Now back to the subject, I already have plans to have compression ratio checked, I went out and bought a really good kit to do that. If my information is correct, the Ford 400 for 1973 had a ratio of around 8.1:1 - 8.6:1 and I will consult my manual to find out the rest.

I know it sounds funny belonging to a group like FTE but if you think about it, the car I have has the exact same drivetrain that is also found in the Bronco's, F-series pickups, and fullsize vans. Same engine, same transmission, and rearend. I still need the front pump replaced on my C6 tranny though but otherwise drives real good once fluid is warm. I'm going to make an attempt this afternoon to swap out metering rods on my carb and if time allows, retime ignition timing. My health is getting better and I'm coughing up this junk in my lungs. I hope thats a good sign. A man should outlive his car, not the other way around. Theres only 7-years difference between my car and I. I'm the oldest.

 

I have read all these post and all I can say is please try
unhooking your vacum advance and driving again before doing anything else