Unless there was a change for '04, you'll get 3.73s with the PSD - that's the only rear axle ratio offered on the SRW SDs. My '02 6-speed tows great, I can't imagine a slushbox doing any better.

Also, in reply to the actual subject of this thread, my shift pattern is much tighter and shorter than any other truck I have owned (including my Ranger).

 

"Unless there was a change for '04, you'll get 3.73s with the PSD - that's the only rear axle ratio offered on the SRW SDs"

According to the 2004 MY F-350 Pick-Up Marketing Strategy and Mix Recommendations book dated 10/15/2003, for a diesel engine, the 4.10 is only available on the DRW's. And only gear code XF2 which is Limited Slip. A regular 4.10 isn't available at all on the diesels.

 

n578md;

Well, I am the worst.
________________

Nah, I'm sure there are a few who are worse than you are bro, so don't sweat it, and quit being so hard on yourself.


_____

From then on, I'll be sure to ask for your permission to post next time.
___________________

Thank you bro, I appreciate that you are willing to take the time to make sure that I personally approve of all your future posts before you make them.

E mail me at SinisterKnows@Experts.com before you reply to this post and from now on out, just so I can be sure that all of your post reflect my own opinions...thx dude.

____________

Please don't call Ford and tell them what I've been doing with their truck, they might come by and take it away.
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No problem, as long as you've learned your lesson-everyone is entitled to a few mistakes- your only human man....

Good luck and thanks for the co-operation!

God, I just LOVE people who are so willing to admit they are wrong, and are willing to learn from their mistakes!

As for the original post, the ZF S6-650 is a very tight, high quality transmission, but it is noisy and not as smooth as the NV4500 you had before, the gear shifting pattern is also not optimal to me-I know it's very efficient to have Low and Reverse in the same shift gate but I am so used to reverse being out and then down- not in and up. All in all it's a good tranny, but not perfect -it relies on newer technology, and does not offer the same design
simplicity as regular gear oil gear boxes.

 

Sinister73:

Ehehe!

 

Unreliable.

 

I routinely drive a 97 F-Superduty, and a 99 F550. The six speed transmission is far superior, IMHO. I prefer the gearing of the six speed, and low is nice to have for crossing job sites, without riding the clutch in first, trying to slow down.

 

Unreliable? At $2750 a pop I hope not! What have you heard was unreliable about them? I agree that a dealer might call it unreliable. These transmissions cannot be relied on to bring the customer back for service. There just isn't much that can go wrong with them apart from clutch disc/pressure plate/pilot bearing/throwout bearing of course. And these are consumables.

 

Sinister73:

I'll have to respond to your post as I disagree with your statements.

"Regularly revving up to 2000 RPM 's as you gradually let out the clutch until you've built
up enough speed to let it engage entirely is going to shave lots of material from that
clutch prematurely."

If you had a manual transmission, you'd know that it isn't unusual to rev the engine between
1500 and 2000 rpms to takeoff under certain situations. A 500 rpm difference does not significantly strip off
more friction material.I 've done it quite a few times and still got 7 years/116,000 miles out of my clutch.
Yes, I know, it was 2nd that works great in town, not third.

"1.30 is not a reasonable starting gear ratio, regardless of the rear axle gearing.
And I can imagine the diesel as you ask. With 5.4L gas you might get away with just ruining
your clutch, but at 2000 RPM that diesel is pushing 560+ FTLB, and with the truck not
having any or very little momentum, especially on a grade where weight resistance is greater
-I could really see you destroying that gear which is designed to be engaged at 30 miles an
hour in an already moving vehicle-not 0MPH with total resistance."

Not the best ratio to use but it won't hurt the gear a bit unless you apply shock loads to
it and that's true for any gear, L through OD. Since a ZF s6-650 can handle a vehicle with a GCW of
26,000 lbs, I don't think that my 5750 lbs truck diesel or gas engine will hurt any gears EVEN if I found
a way to start it from OD!!I don't think you've ever seen the gears inside a ZF (Or any other transmission for
that matter),but the 1st gear isn't all that much bigger than the 3rd and the teeth on both of them have
the same thickness. I counted 46 cogs on the 1st gear, 42 on 2nd and 38 on 3rd. The 1st gear is 6.5 inch
in diameter and 3rd is 5.2 inches. This is out of a ZF S542 BTW. The S6-650 is rated at 520 ft/lbs for the
gas model(Low torque model) I don't know what the diesel version of the S6-650 is rated at, but it
is PROBABLY designed to take whatever the 6.0L can throw at it and give back change. The
rating applies to ALL gears. 2nd, 3rd and 4th are all on the input shaft, and it can easily take
520 ft/lbs. The 1st gear btw puts a lot more torque on its shaft than the 3rd gear because it is of larger
diameter (6.5" vs. 5.2") and has more leverage therefore more torque.Have you ever heard of anyone breaking a
U-joint in first gear? Yes. About in 3rd? No, because the engine will run out of torque at the clutch disc by
stalling or slipping before there is sufficient torque to damage the 3rd gear. You know how you're told to check
your clutch by putting it in 4th and letting the clutch go when your truck is against an immovable object? If the
clutch is good, the truck stalls (it doesn't shred the transmission does it?) If the clutch is bad, the engine
keeps running.Do gears break then? In 4th gear, according to you, people would break gears left and right! Ok,
you still don't get it.If you had a 3/8" ratchet and couldn't free a bolt, would the tool break? No it just
wouldn't move. Put a breaker bar on it and the bolt might come free or the ratchet will break. Your hand alone is
3rd gear, the breaker bar is like 1st.


Shifting to third or accelerating in 3rd gear while towing a 8000 lbs trailer puts a
lot more strain on the gear (any gear) than a start from standstill in 3rd gear with an unloaded
truck ever will. As long as I don't exceed the 520 ft./lbs. rating of the transmission, I won't be
breaking ANY gears.
The only thing being strained here is the engine and the clutch. Then engine takes
a beating if it doesn't have enough RPMs and the clutch will have to slip a little longer than if you
used 2nd or 1st gear. That's the extent of the so-called "damages".

Here's some math to back that up (very simplified so you can understand it):

My truck weighs 5750lbs or 2611 kgs curb weight. With the trailer 13750lbs or 6243kg. I tested how long
it took to accelerate from 0 to 42 mph and 30 to 55 mph over a .1 mile distance to get the acceleration
numbers.

Force (in Newtons) = Mass (In KG) * Acceleration (In Meters/second/second)

Unloaded truck 0 to 42mph: 2611kg * 1.44 m/s/s = 3759.84 Newtons
Unloaded truck 30mph to 55 mph: 2611kg * 1.24 m/s/s = 3237.64 Newtons
Loaded truck 30 mph to 55 mph: 6243kg * 0.79 m/s/s = 4931.37 Newtons

So it does take more force to start my truck rolling (3759.84N from 0 mph)
than it takes to go from 30 mph to 55 mph over the same distance BUT it took a lot more
force, 4931.37N, to get it from 30 to 55 mph with the 8000 lbs trailer.
According to you, my third gear would have crumbled with the added trailer weight and boy am I glad
I didn't buy a diesel !! I probably would have been killed in the explosion.
I know that your Chevy or Dodge with it's NV4500 would have, but I drive an F250 with a ZF.

"This has to be some of the worst advice I've ever heard.

Sorry to be so blunt, but please don't advise someone to do something which would abuse his
truck. My .02 cents."

Give me a break! A little dramatic, aren't you?

Believing that the NV4500 is better than an S6-650, now that's the worst thing I've ever heard!
And learn to how to use a damn voting machine, you have about 11 months left!

 

WHOA!!.... Calm down bro,...where's the lovin'?...

 

He told me that the manuals were always coming in for service. I have heard it from other people too. I prefer the Torqshift anyway.

 

Sinister73:

Where's the love?!?!?! How can you ask me that! I drove 56 miles to my wifes fleet maintenance place to find an opened up ZF transmission and look at the gears, I had to pester the three mechanics on duty about it, then I had to borrow a trailer and hook up my brake controller, test the acceleration numbers and wasted a quarter of a tank of gas for you! Now if that doesn't say LOVE right here, I don't know what does! I feel like an unappreciated father! BTW, do you drive a Chevy or Dodge? What engine do you have and how do you like it?

 

Funny, when I last had my truck in for an alignment, the service advisor and a mechanic were standing there and saw I had the 6 speed. Both commented on how bullet proof they were. That they had never seen one in for service yet.

Went to Midway Ford to pick up a part for a work truck. Midway is a big commercial Ford and Sterling dealer in town. I knew the parts guy from previous visits. Asked me how I liked my new truck, new since I was in there last. I told him I loved it, V10 and a 6. He commented on the 6 speed too, saying it was a commercial truck transmission put into a pickup.

Not saying that these people didn't tell you this but I have never heard anyone say anything but great things about the ZF6.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't an automatic transmission an $1100.00 or $1200.00 upgrade on the SD. You might want to keep that in mind when talking to them salesmen, $1100 or $1200 more on the truck MSRP may mean a bigger commission for them. On the truck lot here in Edmond every SD has the automatic transmission, so I will have to order mine to get the 6-speed manual, but I really think they don't have any 6-speeds on the lot because they know the automatic will sell and give them an additional $1100 to $1200 on the MSRP.

 

n578md;

Sinister73:

Where's the love?!?!?! How can you ask me that! I drove 56 miles to my wifes fleet maintenance place to find an opened up ZF transmission and look at the gears, I had to pester the three mechanics on duty about it, then I had to borrow a trailer and hook up my brake controller, test the acceleration numbers and wasted a quarter of a tank of gas for you! Now if that doesn't say LOVE right here, I don't know what does! I feel like an unappreciated father! BTW, do you drive a Chevy or Dodge? What engine do you have and how do you like it?
________________________________________

I appreciate your taking time out from your day to put that impressive test and post together for me...I did'int know someone could care so much! I see the lovin' now..

You made some pretty good points, I still don't believe third gear is an optimal starting gear though.

I drive a 98' F150 reg cab XLT/ 8' box, 2wd, 4.2L/5 speed.
This truck has been really good to me- A LOT better than the 94' I had with 4.9L I6/ 5 speed. The 4.2 hasint got the best reputation-especially from that model year, but mines been very good to me and I work it harder than lots of SD's I see going around.
I actually should have a base 3/4 ton truck for all that I do, and thats what makes me respect this truck even more. My next truck will be a 3/4 ton Reg cab.
I've used/owned Fords, Chevs, and Dodge's. They've all been good to me. I can't really say any are better than the rest from my own experiences with them, though if I were in the market for another 1/2 ton truck(which I'm not) than it would most definately be a Dodge, Ford has a great truck in the new F150-but no manual=not for me. and while I like GM 3/4 tons, their half tons are just too flimsy.
I guess I've been lucky in the fact that all my experiences with the trucks I've owned have been good-except for the aformentioned 94' F150 I owned.

I like the ZF six speed tranny just fine, it's always held up well in SD tow trucks I used, I would'int even think of replacing it in diesel applications, thats why I never mentioned the NV5600 six speed. I do like the NV4500 5speed very much-it's a solid,smooth quiet transmission which has more than enough umph and strength for any gas applications, and is also simpler.
Either way you cant go wrong in gas applications in my opinion, and I'll take either over an auto tranny-even an Allison or Torqueshift, hell I'll even take my Mazda M5od over an automatic-but thats just me....

 

I have the 6 speed in my 01 F250 4x4 psd. I love it but it is eating master cylinders. One every 60000 kms. The new auto torqueflite is great. I test drove one. It will eat my 7.3 in a zero to 60 race. You have to shift the 6 speed a lot