So it's not just scientists but all intellectuals you mistrust. That's not exactly new in Christianity.

BTW I don't know anyone working in science that calls something a fact they don't know to be with certainty. That's not scientific.

At what age had you learned enough science to know it was bunk?

I was raised Catholic and was taught that God was the
"prime mover" and evolution was the method. I no longer accept half of that.

Funny how that science thing seems to be working just fine in so many areas of our lives. That's some valuable bunk.

 

Well, to repeat myself... I don't have the answers to God's origins, but I am just a man. Even if you only temporarily humor my faith to examine this issue, you have to admit that a being capable of creating the universe would not be one that you or I would expect to be an intellectual peer or that we could reckon with. This being the case, we may not ever hope to comprehend what God is and knows.
One possible aspect of God that may be part of the answer to the mystery, is that He is not limited by the physical laws of this dimension, and may operate from another dimension. If this were the case, then, since we have spent our entire lives within our known dimension, as well as the countless generations of scientists and physicists that came before us, we could hardly expect to comprehend or understand the workings of an, as of yet, unknown dimension.
Yes, its a faith based system of belief, but no more so than is evolution, when it comes to filling in the gaps.

 

Broncozilla,

So what you are suggesting is that a majority of scientists stop being scientists and become content with their 'pet theory of evolution'. If this were true why are there still evolutionary scientists? That is, if science no longer needs to investigate evolution theory why do people bother to look at dinosaur bones? Or why do do anthropologists continue to dig in eastern Africa looking for humanoid fossils?

I challenge your statement as completely inaccurate.

While it is true individuals do become attached to their particular theories, the whole body of scientists are very open to new facts and new ideas. Ego could explain this too. If one scientist could use the available facts to present a good case disputing evolution (and in the process making a huge name for themself-an ego trip of the first order), don't you think it would have been done?

But you have rejected this possiblity out-of-hand, thereby leaving only one option--widespread supression of the creation story by people who know better but refuse to acknowledge it. Well, I guess there is a second. Scientists cannot use the available facts to present a good case against evolution. This would be remarkable in itself -- you alone were able to determine the truth using disparate facts in ways that tens of thousands of equally bright persons were unable to do. Who has the ego issue here?

I also find it interesting that you use the word uncomfortable in relation to a belief in God. Are you also uncomfortable with the possibility of having descended from primates? Are you looking for a solution that makes you feel better or are you looking for a solution that appeals to your sense of superiority over animals?

Whistler

 

Well, that's a nice strategy in attempt to paint me as some stereotypical, uneducated, ignorant, bible-thumping flat-earther, but I assure you I am quite well educated and excelled in my university career as I have with my chosen profession.
Interestingly, a recent poll of American colleges and universities determined that nine out of ten faculty members described themselves as liberal Democrats, we all know how politically correct Christianity is with that bunch. A prevailing attitude among colleges and universities, both with faculty and students, is to equate liberalism with sophistication, making it a fad of sorts.


You must not be looking the right places. I've seen endless scientists quote evolution as fact and science as they sneer at Christians, and in fact, its been stated that way even in this thread and another on this board, and even in an article or two that were linked. Are you going to make me dig them all up and qutoe them?


Well, that's a clever attempt to put works in my mouth, but what I actually said was that as a child, a lot of the evolution theory didn't make sense to me. I never said that all science was bunk, though I do think a lot of it is, along with even more of psychology.

 

Are you familiar with the "Scientific Method"? It doesn't rely on faith.

 

Broncozilla,

You present some interesting ideas in your post between mine.

You are absolutely correct in that we may never understand the nature of God. He could operate from within this dimension or another. He may be able to break the laws of physics as we know them. We don't know. More importantly we will probably never know.

So how can you say evolution didn't happen? You can doubt that it did, but you can never say with certainty that it didn't. Remember, you just professed that we can not understand how God works. How can you then claim to understand how he doesn't work? Can't, can you?

Whistler

 

Broncozilla,

http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/ph...AppendixE.html

Please cut and paste to your web browser and read.

 

That must have been a "straw" poll becuase I wasn't included in it. I believe it would shock you just how conservative most Universities really are.

I know a lot of people do it including on here by trying to use a single adjective like liberal or conservative to describe someone but you can't.
Like it or not most people are moderate. I'm liberal on somethings, conservative on others, moderate on most. It just depends on what, why and the situation.

 

Obviously they continue to search for more evidence to support their pet theory.


It has been done, but it is not politically correct, the left controls the media, and so it is suppressed. You apparently haven't made any trips to Mardel's to look at any of their textbooks. (why would you?)

You say I've rejected it out of hand, but that is my opinion. That is what we're discussing here, isn't it? We could go round and round with this, with me accusing you of rejecting creationism out of hand, and determining that you alone can determine truth by using disparate facts,, blah, blah.
Lets not pretend that I am the only one who holds the same opinion.


So we are not superior to animals? This has nothing to do with it. As I stated, for most of my life I bought the evolution bit, but the more I dug into it and began to question it, the quicker it began to fade. Would you believe that I am 36, and believed in evolution until about '96?

 

I stand corrected. You never said all science. Using the term scientists threw me.

 

Regardless of whether or not you accept raw numbers, I can tell you that spending over a decade on campus that most students and faculty are very leftist liberals. In fact, at the university that I graduated from, one of my friends is now part of the faculty and calls himself the "token conservative" because he knows no others on staff.
Actually, your last statement is false, because sociologists are clearly stating that American people are in a trend toward polarization right now.

 

Whistler,
Are we not talking opinions here?

Lets say I'm a juror, I've heard a case, and based on the evidence, I've voted guilty. If the defense presents new evidence later, and gets a retrial, the case will be heard again, but based on the evidence at that point, I've formed my opinion.
Furthermore, I find the evidence of God and the divine inspiration of the scriptures more compelling than that of evolution, and I find problems with evolution that I cannot rectify.
As I've stated numerous times, I find evolution to be just as much of a "religion" as Christianity.
We'llh ave to pick this up again tomorrow, fellas, I've got to go do family things now, and avoid having my wife through this computer out the window.

 

not chooseing sides but, some people keep arguing that aliens put life on earth. Where did the aliens come from? If aliens did start life here they themselves would have had to have been created by God, evolution, or more aliens! And then the problem starts all over again.

** When you seek truth, you must ask yourself:
Are you seeking the solution to a problem; or are you seeking for the appropriate problem that fits your solution? **

Boncozilla I love that statement! It sums the whole argument up.

 

You didn't show any numbers but mentioned a "Poll" that probably wasn't a representative sample of the entire faculty and over enough Universities.

There are even within System diffferences such as the Cal State System and the University of California System.

You can't use a single adjective like "liberal" or conservative describe a Person. When I look to see what Mr. Webster or the American Heritage Dictionary for Liberal and Conservative, I don't see a "vulgar" foot note.

I be fairly conservative on how I adjust the timing or choice of cam on my Mustang for street use for durability and longevity. But on the Drag Strip I'd be so liberal I'd be on the bleeding edge.

 

Maybe they came from the same place God did.