I am in a pickle. I pull a large travel trailer and will need a new TV in about a year and a half. My questioin is:

If I tow just a couple of months a year and just drive the truck around town on short trips, to work etc, the rest of the time,should I get the deisel, or stay with a gasser.

I need some good input here. If this post is in the wrong place, I am sure it will be moved to the correct one.

Thanks in advance, there is alot of knowledge here.

Frank

 

depend s on the mileage. i drive at least 30,000 miles a year, with a pretty good amount of towing involved. most of my towing is HEAVY towing. ill never go back to a gasser at this rate.

 

Diesel is better mileage, and better torque. A gas engine (and this coming from someone with a world of experience in Gas engines) can have a completely messed up mixture, run foul, have electronic problems, and generally eat up a ton of gas while you and everyone else try to figure out why it isn't getting better mileage. The only plus to gasoline as a truck fuel is that it has a snappier response to planting your size elevens in it when you want to get somewhere without a load.

A diesel has a totally different way of making power happen. There is no throttle plate. There is no coil, distributor, electronic ignition computer, are no spark plugs, no wires to replace every year or two, no points (breakers) or no hall effect thingy... It just meters fuel - DIRECTLY.

The air intake is a straight open hole, with no choke and no butterfly valve. It gets all the air that it wants. All it can take in!!!!

Power and RPM's are determined completely by how much diesel fuel you feed it. You can't have a wrong mixture in a diesel as easily as you can in a gas engine.

You can tweak it for better power.

The only trouble shooting you need to do if anything goes wrong most of the time is to the fuel system. The fuel system is fairly simple. Diesels have better pure grunt power than a gas engine in part due to gearing - and they last twice as long as a gas engine if no one messes it up! 300,000 miles can be gotten from a new or rebuilt engine. Because it's controlled by strict fuel flow management - you can't get a more efficient engine design.

And diesel is usually cheaper than gasoline.

The initial cost of the engines are higher, but they pay for themselves. I use mine as a daily commuter, because my flatbed F250 gets better mileage than my 302 powered F100. I've had a few months to compare them. The F250 is much heavier, and bigger. But it just plain makes better use of it's fuel!

Both of them have C-6 trannies, and the F250 gets through all of its low gears by the time it hits 35 miles per hour.....

If I had a better tranny, it would get incredible mileage compared to the 302, but it's (in cubic inches) a 420. 6.9 liters = 420 cubic inches. If I was running a gas version of one of those, I'd be bankrupt before long.... It's a huge motor to my way of thinking, but it has more pulling power and can nurse it's fuel like a mouse from one of those rodent bottles on the highway.

It don't lack for pulling power! But it can also cruise, even unloaded, better than a small block.

For what that's worth...

I understand now why people say: "Once you go diesel, you won't go back"

 

That is a lot of good info. My main question is, is it hard on a deisel doing alot of stop and go, short trips, with a lot of shut offs and start ups.

I always thought a deisel was built to RUN. I know they are head and sholders above gassers for pulling, both in power and mileage. I just didn't want to wear it out stopping and starting it all the time.

Also, deisel is usually higher in the winter, but there isn't ,much vacation driving in the winter. It goes back down when those folks on the east coast stop using so much fuel oil to heat their homes.

Thanks for the reply.

Frank

 

Once a diesel is warmed up, it takes little to start it. I have a key ring just for the diesel that allows me to roll up the windows, lock the doors, and walk into a store with the motor running. I set that up so I could fuel up without shutting it down.

If the lights are off - there isn't any stray electricity around it to speak of. A diesel will also virtually "sip" fuel at idle, and they run a hella lot cooler than gas. (More info on hot gas engines later - I have to get some sleep)


~Wolf

One last - on edit:

The starter I bought for my 6.9 came from the parts store with a lifetime warrantee. If it ever quits, I can pull it out, take it to them, and they will hand me another one with no cash involved. So that's conquerable!

 

I'm guessing by your name that you live in Missouri??!!?? That means you have to drive all the way to Lawrence, Kansas to see a good basketball game!! (Just kidding) Anyway, for the trailer pulling, the diesel will always be better. The rest of the time, any motor will do fine. We debate this endlessly in other forums but only the buyer can justify whether the added cost of the motor will pay for itself in added benefits.

 

I think that most of the "history" regarding it being bad on diesels to start and stop them is grounded in users not familiar with turbocharged diesels.

. . as that is about the only part I have ever heard of failing directly related to starting and stopping the engine frequently.

As you may be able to imagine; if you pull in off the highway, slide up to the fuel pump, and just shut the engine down, that dang turbo may well still be spinning several thousand RMP.

It is failing to delay shutting off the oil pressure to the turbo until it has slowed down sufficiently that causes this "history" of problems with the diesel in this type of use - not the frequent starting and stopping of the engine it's self.

~Always~ let that turbocharged diesel idle for a minute OR TWO before shutting it down, and I truly believe you will not have any problems starting and stopping - all you want.

FWIW & IMHO.

 

I'll elaborate on this a little. Running it for a minute or two before shutdown will prolong the life of the turbo. The exhaust side can get hot. Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) can be as high as 1300 degrees. (truck with heavy trailer). The turbo can spin at spped of 150,000 RPMs. Precision, high performance bearings are used in the turbo. In order for them to stay happy, they need to stay cool. The oil supply and air flowing through the turbo is its primaray source of cooling. If you shut down with high EGT's, that heat has to go somewhere. The temp of the oil that still in the turbo will rise above its flash point. At which point the oil will coke and crystalize(very bad for the bearings) . And the turbo bearings will suffer from heat damage if this is prolonged. Running the engine til the EGT's fall to around 300 degrees will sufficiently cool down the turbo. So to keep your turbo charger happy, run the engine a few minutes before shutdown.


It will keep the the turbo looking like this guy , instead of this guy , and then this guy .

 

I'm a retired truck driver - hope I can be of some help. I just traded in my 1996 F250 Ford Diesel (which was very quiet and rode so nice and smooth) and bought a 2004 Ford super cab Lariat F250 Super Duty with 6.0 Diesel with Air bags. I pull a Cedar Creek 36" RLST 5th wheel.
We became full time RV's in 1999 the pickup has been our only vehicle and we would not drive anything but a diesel. The new Fords are so quiet and drive so nice and smooth. We love the new 6.0 diesel it has more horse power than our friends 1999 Ford F350. Big Bob

 

Just to be fair, the diesel is NOT the end-all, do-all engine people often make it out to be. It is great for over-the-road hauling, but falls short of a gasser in some other areas. Usage, up-front costs, maintenance costs and residual value should all be part of your considerations.

 

The diesel guys have made a good case but there are pros and cons to both. I have owned and tow'ed with both over the last 15 years and can tell you my observations.

I don't care for diesels as a daily driver. They are noisyer and rougher than a gas motor and the little things like waiting for the glow plugs to start it and letting the turbo spool down before shutting off wear thin in day to day use. The diesel has different road manners than a gas motor, especially around town. Here too I prefer the gas motor. I would recommend you drive a diesel for a day or two to get a feel for these and see how you like it.

If you do a lot of heavy towing, then the performance of the turbodiesel is better, especially at altitude. Fuel milage and service life are better too. But diesel fuel is sometimes higher or lower than gas depending on what state and the time of year you use the vehicle. Many of the states I tow'ed in diesel was higher and that offset the fuel milage difference. I now figure my milage in "miles per dollar" rather than miles per gallon. That makes a lot more of a direct comparison in fuel cost.

Also, the diesel has a lot higher cost of operation too. Regular serivce (oil change, water separator, fuel filter, fuel conditioner and air filter) is much higher and must be more rigorously adheard too than a gas motor. Check the factory's maintenance schedules for both and compare the costs of each and you will be shocked at the difference. For a V10, changing the oil and filter, air filter and fuel filter is a fraction of the cost of a diesel. Yes, diesel's don't require "tune-ups" like gas motors but modern gas motors can go 50 to 100K miles before requiring one and then its only a set of plug wires, spark plugs and PCV. All done for about the cost of an oil change on a PSD.

A V10 with a Banks kit on it can perform like a PSD in all but the most seviere conditions yet drive around town daily like any car. Yes, diesels will go 300K miles but then so will a well cared for gas motor. My current '95 Clubwagon XLT has 220K miles (mostly towing) on it and is going strong.

For my preferences, I would look at what I needed the vehicle to to best. The more I needed it to tow heavy loads, long distances, the more I would lean toward the diesel. If I needed to use it more as a daily driver that I tow'ed with occasionally, the more I would consider the V10. Also, the difference in purchase price can be pretty stiff too.

Steve

 

I really appreciate everyone's input. Now that I am TOTALLY confused, I will mull it over. I have about 18 mos. to make up my mind.

Frank