Notices
General NON-Automotive Conversation No Political, Sexual or Religious topics please.

Lay it on the line

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 09:35 AM
  #16  
billsco's Avatar
billsco
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
From: Buffalo, Minnesota
Originally posted by haulingboat
The problem with Librtetarion is it splits the vote from the right allowing the left to get in. IMHO that's worse than the Repubs.
WE are between a rock and a hard place.
I understand that sentiment, but I don't like the feeling of being a hostage every time I vote. And I certainly don't like holding my nose shut when I shut the curtain.

If the Republicans won't act like Republicans, they don't deserve to be in power, IMO.
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 09:45 AM
  #17  
sinjin's Avatar
sinjin
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles safe and warm
Originally posted by billsco
Why can't they free themselves? Where are the Jimmy Hoffas to organize the exploited?
Often jailed without due process or simply disappeared.
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 10:12 AM
  #18  
Oldbones's Avatar
Oldbones
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 151
Likes: 0
From: rural SE Michigan
Call me a conservative independant.

My feelings fall fairly much in line with haulingboat's first post.

TORT REFORM! Get those insurance premiums back down.

Armed and dangerous only to those who intend thuggery of any sort upon me or anyone next to me. (Glad to see the senior citizen in Florida was not prosecuted for defending the life of his friend)

Abortion: Touchy issue. Rape, medical danger to the mother-to-be whos birth control decided not to work that week...there are exceptions to some of these moral issues.

Stick with the Constitution and don't try to tweak it too much. In the same breath, I have to question the Ninth Circuit Court's very existence.

Common sense. Keep it simple.

And get the dang pork trimmed! Sheesh!

Major overhaul needed on tax code. If the IRS can't understand it, neither can we.

Run this country like a business.

Better stop before my brain explodes.

I would not choose to live anywhere else in the world. Liberty is precious stuff.

Oldbones
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 10:57 AM
  #19  
jpsartre12's Avatar
jpsartre12
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
From: Detroit Subs
I consider myself a Jeffersonian Liberal, with a couple of diversions from true Jeffersonian philosophy.
I believe in the unequivocally rights of the individual to act as he/she wishes as long as they aren’t denying the same rights to others. Where I divert from true Jeffersonian beliefs is that Jefferson included values and morality as individual freedoms. I don’t think that we can act amorally, Carte Blanc, and not affect others. For example, I believe that abortion is murder, not a removal of tissue from someone who happens to be pregnant and
Like Jefferson and others, I don’t believe that “equality” is the highest goal, freedom is. Milton Friedman wrote, "A society that puts equality ahead of freedom, will end up with neither equality or freedom." Rights aren’t group rights, they’re individual rights. To me, that means that regulating drug usage, alcohol, guns, sex between consenting adults, smoking in public, etc., all represent attempts to limit individual freedoms for the good of the collective and are inherently bad.
I don’t believe in Affirmative Action, hate crime laws or ANY laws that are given to special groups. It is counter to our Founding Fathers’ desires and intentions and are “anti-individual”. Because I believe in individualism, I don’t believe we should have a Federal safety net. It is legalized theft and an abomination of the powers given to the Federal Government. Charity is a private matter and should remain privately funded. Education is a personal responsibility, not a collective right. The list goes on and on....
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 11:21 AM
  #20  
haulingboat's Avatar
haulingboat
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 723
Likes: 1
From: Spring, Texas
Jp we seem to agree on many issues, but I need to call attention to what seems to me hypocrisy in your post.
I wish not to turn this thread into a debate on abortion, but how is tha government telling me I cannot have an abortion any different than them telling me I cannot carry a gun. It is still government intrusion into my personal decision making.

To set the record straight I don't think that abortion should be used a birth control. However, if my wife and I get pregnant, find out the child has downsyndrome and agree that we don't want to have the child because of the effects it will have on our life, then that is our choice. It should not be taken away by some institution. WE may decide that child could live a long productive life, but we will not be around to support that child and therefore opt not to have it. The reason behind our decision is not what is important, the right to choose is.
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 11:31 AM
  #21  
sinjin's Avatar
sinjin
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles safe and warm
Originally posted by jpsartre12
Education is a personal responsibility, not a collective right.
Here we disagree. While not a right I feel we all benefit from the education of all citizens. If it's personal responsibility and I assume you mean the parents, what is to be done if the parents do not fulfill their responsibility?
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 11:56 AM
  #22  
haulingboat's Avatar
haulingboat
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 723
Likes: 1
From: Spring, Texas
Originally posted by sinjin
Here we disagree. While not a right I feel we all benefit from the education of all citizens. If it's personal responsibility and I assume you mean the parents, what is to be done if the parents do not fulfill their responsibility?
I agree that education is mandatory. I don't think that government is the best administrator. Instead of paying taxes me should pay tuition. Privitize the system offer scholerships to the ones less fortunate and improve the system. Now I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why this should not be attempted, but consider all the reasons it would improve the existing system.
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 01:12 PM
  #23  
jpsartre12's Avatar
jpsartre12
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
From: Detroit Subs
Originally posted by sinjin
Here we disagree. While not a right I feel we all benefit from the education of all citizens. If it's personal responsibility and I assume you mean the parents, what is to be done if the parents do not fulfill their responsibility?
They live with dumb kids?
Actually, forced education is a relatively new idea. You don't need Uncle Sam to get an education. In fact, one could argue that you'd get a better one without him.
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 01:17 PM
  #24  
sinjin's Avatar
sinjin
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,540
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles safe and warm
I think many of us have enough baggage from our parents without illiteracy being added.
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 01:21 PM
  #25  
whistler's Avatar
whistler
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
Originally posted by jpsartre12
They live with dumb kids?
No, we all live with dumb kids.



Whistler
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 01:57 PM
  #26  
johare's Avatar
johare
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 681
Likes: 0
From: Springfield, IL USA
While the education system in this country certainly could use an overhaul (more equalized funding, better curriculum and more consistent delivery, more discipline and support from the home, etc.), without required education many chidlren will just not be educated. As it is many families (single parent and two parent) do not support their children's education. Without required education the literacy rate goes up, crime goes up, welfare goes up, intelligent choice at the polls goes down, and genrally our economy as a whole would suffer greatly.

If we feel unemployment is bad now and are upset because companies move overseas for labor reasons - try doing away with required education and see what happens. There will be a huge un/undereducated work force and companies will be forced to move else where. This at a time when skills required to hold a job are increasing thus requiring a more highly educated work-force.

Talk about really creating a have and have not society. We are getting all to close to that now!
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 08:17 PM
  #27  
98rangerstep's Avatar
98rangerstep
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
From: Where ever my boots come off.
Originally posted by johare


Only the native Americans can claim to be true Americans and we immigrants certainly treated them fairly and with respect and dignity!
Uh... no we didn't, or I should say no they didn't. The settlers killed as many native americans as they could then said " here have this large piece of land" then they took it back and said "here have this small piece of land.


...But every thing else I agree with.
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 09:55 PM
  #28  
johare's Avatar
johare
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 681
Likes: 0
From: Springfield, IL USA
98rangerstep,
I was being sarcastic with that statement about our treatment of native Americans. In my opinion we treated the native Americans much worse than any other minority group in America.
 
Reply
Old Dec 19, 2003 | 10:07 PM
  #29  
There Goes The Neighborhood's Avatar
There Goes The Neighborhood
Elder User
20 Year Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 821
Likes: 0
From: Normal, IL
Sorry I didn't elaborate more. What I meant is in Corporate and Political America's haste to give equal oppurtunity to minorities, they have forgotten about those who originally built this country.

Also, in saying that all non-citizens should be sent back was wrong on my part, and what I really meant was that we should do a much better job of screening who we bring into the country, as was mentioned earlier in the forum.There are enough people in America that the job market is not strong enough to support those already here, let alone bringing more people into the country. When an immigrant comes to America, he/she does not pay taxes for up to seven years. No taxes, and they take our jobs. I don't get that luxury, why should they?
 
Reply
Old Dec 20, 2003 | 12:20 AM
  #30  
McCrusty's Avatar
McCrusty
Freshman User
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Originally posted by theregoestheneighborhood
...what I really meant was that we should do a much better job of screening who we bring into the country
Agreed.

When an immigrant comes to America, he/she does not pay taxes for up to seven years. No taxes, and they take our jobs. I don't get that luxury, why should they?
I did not know that...about the taxes.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:34 PM.