alright, you guys have socialized medicine up there, right.
how do you feel about it?
does it work?

 

Between myself and my brother's wife and mother in law, both nurses, this could blow the "God is an Impossibility" thread out of the water for length. If you want to get a hot debate going in most areas of Canada, bring up healthcare.

Short answer. Yes and no.

It works beautifully in theory IMHO, and in practice, probably at about 60-70% efficiency. The problems of ever increasing prices for medical equipment, drugs and health care workers is a BIG burden on tax payers. The shortage of money has caused the quality of healthcare to suffer.

Abuse is a major problem, ER's are crowded with people who have a cold, when there's no cost involved, people tend to seek medical care for anything and everything. Again, IMHO, both good and bad.

A lack of doctors, most lured to the US by big money, has caused waiting lists for some surgeries. Coupled with shortages of equipment, it can be a real problem, and one that needs to be solved.

Free healthcare for every citizen - everyone has access to equal quality healthcare. If there's any part of me that's socialist, it comes out strongest on this point. I know there's abuse, I know some aren't "paying their share", but it's something I believe in.

I'm not to blind to the problems though, equal for all means "average" healthcare - the VERY BEST healthcare is unavailable to most Canadians unless they have the money to go to the US, however, that level of healthcare is not available to the average America either.

The healthcare system is the single biggest drain on our taxes, and IMHO, some reform of the program is necessary, but I would never be in favour of "Americanizing" our healthcare system.

Waxy

 

Waxy - how much of a tax is it? If you don't mind me asking.

Our healthcare for my company went to $400 a month for me and my family, is it more or less than that?

just curious

 

I work for the County and have free life insurance!

I pay like $6/month for dental.

 

I have no problem answering questions, if I can.

I really don't know an exact number, it comes out of both Federal and Provincial income taxes. Hard to say, total income tax I pay is ~36% of my income. A lot more than $400/month, but all of our tax revenue and expenditure comes from that money. I'm not sure what percentage is directed to healthcare, but I'm sure it's significant.

I'd guess that it's actually pretty close $400/month directly to healthcare though between my taxes and the benefit plan at work.

Waxy

 

I pay $227/month for Med and Dent. (whole Family) Used to be FREE.

 

Waxy, thanks for the well stated answer.
I've been curious about how the system actually worked in practice. I also support the concept of socialized medicine, but realize there are always abuses of things like this.
ER overuse is a problem down here too, for many low income people it is the only place they can be seen in an even remotely timely manner.I think the whole ER system needs to be worked out. this is a sometimes hot topic here too, but socialized medicine for everyone in the US is a ways off in the future.

 

Abuse is also a contributor to private US policy costs and co-pays increasing at rapid rates, and for the same reasons and not just at lower income levels.

Canada isn't affected by one of the biggest costs to US medical practitioners, liability insurance. Many doctors now budget one-third of their gross revenue to malpractice insurance, which means for any doctor to realize reasonable net earnings patient/insurance costs are increased by a factor far larger than one-third.

That issue spreads as the MD resorts to extensive lab tests and specialist consultations to cover the liability exposure, increasing medical and administrative costs in a logarithmic manner.

I'd think those issues would, with regard to cost, offset the gross inefficiency factor of government administration of socialized medicine.

 

I was born and raised in Canada and moved to the US after I got married. I found that living in MN, my take home pay is about the same as it would be if I were in Canada once you figure in your health insurance and 401K.

One thing I have noticed in general is that the health care service here in MN is seems significantly better than that of Canada's.

However, my mother still lives in Canada and is not in the greatest of health. She see's a doctor about 3 times a month and is on several medications. For someone like her, the Canadian system is a better system because of the cost that would be involved here in the US.

 

An interesting point. What remedies do Canadians have if they are the receipients of gross medical malpractice? While most hospitals have their own bureaucracy to protect the doctors in the US, is it a bigger problem in Canada because the beaucracy is so much bigger?

 

There are only 2 provinces where people pay premiums unless they are living under the poverty level.
Alberta is one of them.

The premium for a single person is 44/Month
Family coverage with children (under 19) is $88.00 /month.

Our medicare has taken a huge hit from the feds keeping the money thatr is supposed to be given to the provinces to provide healthcare to all.

The original agreement in 1968 saw the Federal government contribute 40% of the cost to the provinces.

Presently they are only giving the prov's 14%.
BIG Diffeence right?

WE have what we call trans fer payemnts whereas
"Have Provinces" help out the DON'T have prov's with Transfer payment's

There are only 2 *Have Provinces*.
Alberta & Ontario

Now you know why people like to come to Alberta.
Alberta doesn't have a sales tax but it does have plenty of User Fees.

The Provincial gov't here has a cloaking device to make voter's look stupid

The premier says: " The only way Taxes are going is DOWN"

He doesn't explain to people that they are going to be paying User fee's instead.

The medical community in Canada is slowly getting more MRI machine.
They are trying to attract more Doctors & Nurse's to Rural areas.

The premier who doesn't like the CUPE is thought have tried to bust the unions.

Calgary's population will hit 1,000,000 soon,it used to have 2 Central Hospital's, But The gov't sold one & imploded the other.
The Colonel Belcher Hopsital ( For our Veterans) is closing and will be turned into a Walk-in clinic.

The new gov't strategy is to get *the Business world * to build the medical centres & then the gov't will pay them a flat rate for whatever service was performed.

Michelle in March 2001 suffered a 2 strokes,heart surgery,& partial amputation of a finger.

Aside from the emergency doctor sending her home at 8:00 am after suffering Heart Failure,saying there wasn't anything wrong with her & then her receiving the utmost care after I blew a gasket with the hospital staff, The treatment couldn't have been better.

This was an emergency though.
Try getting into an MRI to have any part of your body scanned because someone might have somethimg wrong, you are put on a waiting list, sometimes the wait MIGHT be as soon as 6 months.

WE have a claim going on right now against 2 doctors & the ER of the hospital.

Michelle went to the ER for day surgery to have her finger looked.
It was blue & without circulation.
The DR perfomed a procedure to see if circulation could be restored,The procedure called for requiring stitches on her palm.

After 6 attempts to get him to do a Follow-up & remove the sutures,which all ended up going to the ER, it was finally 28 days until he saw her again.

I was wondering if the sutures would come out.

Within 24 hours of that appointment she had 2 strokes.
She was taken to the ER at 11:00pm & was discharged at 8:00 am.
During this 9 hr period for 5 hours I asked and asked & inquired why she isn't getting a CT Scan.
WE were told she will get one at the other hospital where she is being transferred to.
Well they didn't they discharged her.

I had her back in 3 hrs to the ER of the Hospital we first when to.

12 hours later she was admitted and then had teams of doctor's looking at her.
4 from infectious disceases
3 from haematology (sp)
2 from the stroke centre
3 from the heart ward.

She was the recipient of Numerous tests.

Some where so bad her arms turned purple.

So there you have our medical system.
Some of it is good & some is bad.


NOT one Lawyer in Calgary or Edmonton would take her case
for Malpractice.

The only Lawyer's I know personally are the Lawyer's that represent the DOCTOR'S in Malpractice suits

Had this happen in the US, we would have to fight them off with stick,clamoring to represent her.

Anything else you want to know ?

 

sorry you had to go through all that.
sounds like both our systems are pretty flawed
do you feel the situation in your country is worsening or improving? if you could trade Canada's system for the US's, would you?

 

You mean we have a system in the U.S.? Just about all the Hospital got taken over by the "grocery store" type chains. Its just business to many of them.

 

Mil1ion,

England has furnished socialized medical care to that population for a long time. I can only speak from personal associations with English people in the 1980s, but at that time if you had a buck or two you used private doctors, not those provided by the government system. Does Canada allow private medical practice or, your personal experiences aside, is the level of government care generally high enough to provide enough competition to discourage private practices from flourishing?

 

I don't know the ruling on Practicing medicine in Canada as far as Private Offices go.
I would imagine it is okay because they had to have the credentials to practice medicine
I know that Specialty Doctors can.

Plastic Surgeons, Abortion Doctors

I wouldn't trade it for the US system but I wouldn't discourage others from zooming across the border for treatment.
If you have the money,....go for it.

The talk up here is about not wanting a 2-tiered system.
These people don't seem to realize we have had a 2 tiered medical system for quite a while.

Mostly people are concerned about Organ transplants.
Say 20 people needed liver transplant.
2 are RICH & 18 are poor.

The 18 poor people are concerned the People with money will get their liver before them.

Personally,
I know how the system works,so if I have what I consider a life threatening problem ,I know how to get through the doors.
I have never gone to a hospital without the problem being a major one >

Broken Legs, Broken Arm, Severe cut on the hand that severed a ligament & required 14 stitches outside & 6 inside.Work related injuries,etc

During Michelle's situation in 01,I had seen so much abuse of people going the ER for a minor cough, a sliver in a finger, or a bruised forearm.

One of my tactics is to fall on the floor so the automatic doors keep closing & opening from hitting my body