Thanks Flash.

 

Yes i noticed a difference the first time i ran Mobil 1 5w-30 and filter in my explorer. Not sure if its just me or what, but i seem to notice every little thing, whether better peformance, or a air filter starting to restrict performance

 

Hello,

I have run synthetic oils since the early 80's. When I purchased a new or used vehicle it usually has just received an oil change. I go ahead and then run the oil for around 1000 miles then I change the filter and put synthetic oil in.

Everyone of of my vehicles from brand new to 90,000 mile work cars has a very noticeable change when the synthetic oil is in. I have used it in Jeeps, GM cars and trucks, Ford cars and Trucks and in my 1982 Corvette with 22,000 miles.
I even use synthetic 2 cycle in my weed wacker and chain saw. I had to reset the idles and the carburators because the change was so dramatic. Even my lawn tractor gets synthetic.

I compare it to doing something that adds performance. The change is not earth shattering...lol but it feels like the engine has had something for performance added.

Quicker acceleration was more noticeable then anything else. Also the engine runs cooler in hot weather. When you consider it, less friction means less heat build up and faster revs. I now use Zmax too and I don't know if it helps but I like the info that they have on it. I get the kit with the tranny additive and the fuel additive along with the oil additive.

Lately, I have mostly run castrol syntec but I am going back to Mobil 1 I am convinced that it is about the best.

My workmates and friends change oil usually around 3000 miles and some wait until 7000 miles. They say that they spend less money then I do and they have no engine problems. So why use synthetic?

I posed this question to Mobil 1 along with other comments about why should someone use synthetic.
They gave what I felt was a good answer to this one.

Lab and tests proves....2 engines in identical cars. One has regular oil changes with oil and 1 with synthetic. Both engines are tested at around 75,000 miles. Because of startups and greater wear the engine that used oil even though it was properly changed has less horsepower then the engine that ran synthetic. Less horsepower means that it uses more gas to do the same kind of driving as the car using synthetic.

So if you plan to keep a vehicle and want it to feel like a strong engine when it gets higher mileage then I am convinced that you should run synthetic. I know that there are guys who have high mileage and have only used regular oil. But the wear is gradual so you might not notice the change unless you were able to jump into a similar vehicle that had run synthetic. Mobil 1 did this by letting drivers switch back and forth in the vehicles. There was a noticeable difference even when just driving the vehicle normally.

 

Counterpoint.

I switched the BMW from 15W-40 dino to 10W-40 synthetic over a month ago. There is no change in gas mileage, starting, temperatures, smoothness or performance.

Jim

 

I used Synthetic in my '91 Toyota 4x4 pickup (22re engine) 13 years and 387,000 miles and was still running like NEW when I sold it.

Changed oil and filter every 10K-12K miles, using Mobil 1.

I do not use Synthetic in my truck now because I do not see it being cost effective, 15 qts in Ford VS. 5qts in the Toyota.

I do it every 5K.

 

When I switched my dad's Chebby 4.8L silverado to Mystik JT-8 (dino) from Mobil 1, I noticed that it ran smoother, quieter, and eliminated the dreaded piston slap.

Synthetic will NOT protect your engine better, there have been many UOA's on this site to prove that.

 

I've used Castrol Synnie (5w-30)for the past five vehicles. It maybe alittle more expensive but over time, it has proven itself as I have alway put alot of high miles on my vehicles. I had an Ford Escort 95 160k miles. And now I have a 98 Merc Mountaineer 145k miles....Just changed out the spark plugs and wires, fuel injectors, and PVCvalve. Ran a short race with a 2002 Mustang 5.0....I think. Did not beat him but he was hell surprised that I stayed right next to him the whole way....heheheheeh

m40

 

I do not think everyone sees a change. Let me explain. First, you are in California so I don't think cold weather starts are a problem for you. Heat, now that is another matter.

Everyone knows that your engine thermostat's job is to keep the engine at the best temperature for overall running. I suppose a BMW like most new engines has a higher temp stat.

Therefore, the synthetic will not be able to lower the temperature below the stat. The stat will just close more to keep the engine at its set temperature.

The statistics undoubtably prove that synthetic provides less friction then petro based oil. Flows better in heat or cold. So it has to work all the time better then oil.

Does that mean oil is no good. No.

Just because you cannot feel or see a difference in the friction and wear to your engine does not mean that it is hot there.

So people only see more noticable results.

For example you might not notice them until you’re driving demands or environmental conditions push your cars system toward the limits that you will notice a difference with synthetic. Hard running, high temps, high revs. Synthetic will be there better to protect your engine.

When some people add performance equipment or products that add power or economy they use the added performance and use the added power.

When you conserve the added power or efficiency you can benefit in savings. Better gas mileage and wear.

However, some use the performance and efficiency for better acceleration and speed. So instead of the efficiency becoming a saver it becomes a performance aspect and so is gone. For example some performance items can save gas but only if you don't use the performance aspect for power. Then your cost savings was exchanged into performance.

Another example is fuel injection. It provides for a more efficient use of fuel and air then carburetion so it can be powerful and economical. You either split the difference so you have some power and some economy or you can use it for just the power.

All statistics show that synthetic oil provides for less friction between moving parts then petroleum oil. So it has to make a difference unless the user changes its efficient use to power.

If you see, no difference then go back to oil. With a BMW, it will have no trouble going 70mph with more friction or you can go 70 with less friction.

 

Neither Motorcraft nor Castrol Syntec are true synthetic lubes. They are Group III petroleums. A true synthetic lube is made from basestock that is chemically constructed. That said, Group III petroleums are almost as good as PAO (polyalphaolefin) and are much cheaper as well as being a solid step forward for dino oil. I used Castrol Syntec for several years with good results though mostly that was before they stopped using PAO and switched to Group III. I stopped using Castrol because I felt that they were being dishonest when they switched and did not own up to the change. I also objected to paying a synthetic price for a petroleum product.

Before anyone gets upset, two points: 1) There does seem to be plenty of evidence that dino oils have been continually improved to meet the continually increasing demands of modern engines; 2) As a synthetic lube user, I feel no responsibility to look down on those who feel that dino lubes serve them best. Some may claim that those of us who use synthetic lubes are too religious, but I have observed that there are plenty of folks just as religious about dino oil.

Frankly, I am not religious about synthetics, merely pragmatic. I use a synthetic lube (SynLube) because I believe it provides a better long term value to me. I like not having to change my oil and I like the better gas mileage I get. I know I'm getting better gas mileage because I know what other folks are getting on their very similar vehicles. Also, as has been noted above, the synthetics seem to deal with cold weather better than dino lubes. Obviously, for extreme conditions, synthetics are better because the military uses them almost exclusively in the desert and the artic/antartic regions where dino oils simply could not cope.

Having a large safety margin is very reassuring to me. In city rush hour traffic in the middle of July when it's boiling outside and that A/C feels so good, I don't want to worry about whether the oil is boiling and my engine is building up deposits. The true synthetics are just fine at 300 degrees and dissipate heat more quickly than dino oil. Read the ecstatic comments on this Board about how wonderful Marvel Mystery Oil is at getting rid of sludge deposits and it will not be hard to conclude that dino oil is not always adequate for some situations we encounter. With SynLube, I'll never have this problem. Neither will users of Amsoil or Mobil 1.

I don't believe synthetics will make an old engine run like new. Any time one changes from tired oil to new, they will notice a difference whether the new oil be synthetic or not. Synthetics also should not be used in engines that burn oil. It winds up as just being more expensive smoke.

In the end, synthetics are really great for folks who want to make sure that cars are protected while dino is fine for those who are confident that their vehicle will never see conditions their dino lube can't handle.

 

I agree and feel very much like you do Houckster. I have changed back to Mobil 1 for the same reasons that you had for leaving Castrol Syntec.

 

Houkster, I see you're promoting SynLube, or SynLube 4-life as they call it at www.synlube.com. They say not to change this oil. I cannot see how you could NEVER change the oil and not have problems. For one thing, the oil filter would clog up after about 20,000 miles, and they say to keep them on for 10 years or 100,000 miles! That filter would be in bypass mode for most of it's life. They're not the only ones to use synthetic media, Mobil 1 uses it and costs about $10, while they want $20 for theirs! They also do NOT have the best efficiency, Purolator has better.

On the oil. They're Synlube 4-life oil costs about $32 per quart for the initial fill! On top of that, you're supposed to flush your engine for another $90 with they're special "flush oil," something I can do for a lot less by simply changing with cheap oil and a quart of MMO then changing it again. On top of that you only get 4 quarts for that $90, so you're running it low while flushing anyway.

Let's see how much it costs to get started with Synlube, assuming 5 quart capacity. $115 to get it flushed, using the flush oil, buying a 1 gallon jug and another quart. Assuming you use a cheap oil filter for the flush, add another $5. Now we're up to $120. Then you fill it up with the initial fill. 4 litres, and one more litre to make approximately 5 quarts, is $152. Now we're up to $272. Now we add the $20 oil filter. Now we're up to $292. Then, if we figure the cost over 100,000 miles, adding a quart every 10,000 miles (we know we have engines that use more than that...) we spend $20 on a litre of they're "add oil" every 10,000. That's another $200. So we're up to $492 to go 100,000 miles. Then, when you do decide to replace the oil filter, you're expected to spend $40 for the service fill, which is 1 litre! The synlube site even tries to trick you, using litres instead of quarts, so we cannot directly compare price. 1 litre = 1.05 quarts. There's your comparison.

Where's all the contamination supposed to go? You've got combustion gasses, moisture, and carbon constantly blowing by the rings and being mixed in the oil while the engine is running. Do you really think this oil can handle all this contamination and be able to sufficiently lubricate the engine?

Now let's do it my way. Figuring $1.20 for Mystik JT-8 HDMO, and $3 for a Motorcraft oil filter, changing at 5000 miles, is $180 for 100,000 miles. And I have a clean oil filter, and new, uncontaminated oil the whole time.

So my way definately comes out on top monetarily. I cannot see how dirty, black oil, with a plugged up oil filter, will protect your engine better than new, clean, oil with a new, clean oil filter. You might get slightly increased mileage when you first change over to Synlube, because of all the additives they put in it, but do you think that'll be the case after even 20,000 miles? I think not.

I can see why you're promoting it, you're trying to validate your investment.

 

There is a good deal of discussion on the website about this point. I suggest, with respect, that you read a bit further. In short, the filter will not clog after 20K miles or even well beyond. Usually, filters that are cut up after removal show almost nothing in them at all. Filters, under the SynLube system are usually replaced as a function of filter media aging. SynLube does not have the problems of sludge and any ferric particles are removed to the filter wall by the magnets that are installed rather than clogging the media.

SynLube's filters are made by GM and Purolator does not have a filter that comes anywhere close to the quality of a SynLube filter. If you look at the specs on the filter, you will see that Purolator has no filter with a wire backing to make sure the filter media pleats stay in place. I also am reasonably sure that no Purolator filter uses a synthetic filtration media. They are all cellulose. Finally, none of them filters down to 5-10 microns. The seal on a SynLube filter costs as much as some cheap filters. There is no comparison. Mobil 1's filter would be my choice were SynLube to not have any filters.

Again, you have come to conclusions that are incorrect. A flush oil is available for conversion of engines that suffer from heavy deposits of sludge. I trust you have not allowed that to happen to your engine. At most, all you need do is run a change of Mobil 1 through your engine for one OEM interval and then you could convert to SynLube. MMO is a fairly agressive solvent for attacking strong sludge deposits. Some of it would be left behind when you change oils and that would not be an good condition for SynLube whereas Mobil 1 would be ideal. Because of this false assumption, your analysis of cost to convert is false. You could convert to the SynLube system for approximately $200 or possibly less. During the course of the oil's service you would need either the Service Fill @ $40 or the Add Oil (which is included in the SynLube conversion package) depending on the degree of oil consumption that your truck has. The Service Fill is for engines like mine that burn almost no oil since I converted at 668 miles. If your engine has been using dino oil for a good while, oil consumption will probably be high enough that the Add Oil at $20 will be appropriate. Unfortunately there is no substitute for starting out a new engine's life with SynLube.
If the engine's rings are damaged or excessively worn, then SynLube is a waste of money but I am going to assume your engine is in good condition. Missing from your understanding of this product is that the oil is able to provide a much more reliable seal so that blowby gases are considerably reduced. Moreover the additive package is far superior to any available for conventional oils. Additionally, the components of the oil are highly inert and even at very high temperatures, the reactivity of the oil is almost nil. It is the deterioration of dino oil that causes the problems you mention. You don't have them with SynLube. BTW, carbon does not pass by the rings. It is oxidized and exhausted. Again, SynLube does discuss this if you look further under "Dirty Oil".
Please consider again. You have no direct experience with this product while I have direct experience with your system as well as the SynLube system. There is such a thing as a healthy skepticism and then there is cynicism. Were you reading to thoughtfully consider or were you there to try and find reasons to reject it? I will leave it to you to answer that question.

I have spent considerable time with a spreadsheet analyzing the cost of SynLube based on the experience I have already had with this product. It boils down to costing about 30% of dino oil. I will break even on my investment at 17,800 miles as compared to conventional dino oil maintenance at 3K miles intervals at $25 a change.

As far as me trying to validate my investment, I couldn't be bothered. If SynLube hadn't worked out, I would have installed Amsoil or Mobil 1 and then moved on. I spent about $200 for SynLube supplies to get started. This is not an astronomical amount. It certainly is not worth the amount of abuse (I do not accuse you of this.) I've sometimes been subjected to when I tried to point out there is something better out there than dino oil. Like I pointed out, dino oil has its religious adherents just as synthetics do.

I been fooled a bunch of times but one has to take risks from time to time in order to find better ways of doing things. SynLube has worked. It does what it says it will do.

 

It is not my intent to abuse, instead to provide intelligent conversation, providing the other side of the argument. I can see I will not dissuade you from SynLube, but that doesn't keep me from making my point, which is that I believe it is a waste of money.

I said the filter would clog in 20,000 miles, I take that back, SynLube contains Teflon (PTFE). This means it'll clog up quicker. Teflon tends to bunch together, and when heated greatly expands. So if it does make it past the filter, it'll build up and clog up your oil passages. No lubricant, no matter how good or additized, is going to keep Teflon suspended forever.

You're always going to have blowby. It's just a fact with modern engines. Otherwise you wouldn't have PCV valves. No matter how old, or new, the engine, you will always have blowby. Carbon will be temporarily deposited on the cylinder walls, and will get by the rings to be picked up by the oil. Diesel engines prove this, and it happens to a lesser extent in gasoline engines, but it still happens. Carbon and silicon will get into the oil. The longer you run it, the more of it accumulates. The bad thing about carbon, is that usually very small particles are the ones that get by the rings, and some of these are not caught by the filter. They build up in the oil. When you get enough of them, they will start to affect viscosity. I know their site says that it wont, but it will.

It also has Molybdenum Disulfide in it. That is MoS2. This is known to cause acid problems. It's main use is in greases and engine assembly lube. It's use in motor oil went out in the 60's.

Synlube is only sold, as far as I can tell, in 5w50 grade. Most engines do not call for this grade, and may be too thick for a new engine. When you have an oil that is too thick and a bearing without enough clearance to support the oil film, the oil will shear and you'll be left with boundary lubrication, like ZDDP, or, in this case, Molybdenum Disulfide.

You're right, I havent used it. I have described, in detail, why. My 1992 explorer has 189,000 miles, and uses NO oil. No leaks, uses none. And it has had dino oil since day 1, which was 11 years ago. Still runs strong. It's been operated in a wide variety of conditions, 100 degrees with the AC blasting in summer, to 10 degrees below. It functioned fine the whole time. You cant tell me anything would have worked better.

 

Doggonit. There you go again with your Church Lady attitude. Face it, you are a dino biggot. Syn. is "really great" while dino is "fine"?

Look. You have considered the facts carefully and come to the conclusion that $32 oil is the way to go. I respect this. I disagree, but I respect your decision. Many people agree with you.

I have looked at the facts too and concluded that plain old dino is just fine. Please respect my decision. Many people agree with me as well.

Quit implying that you like your car more than I like mine because you give your car "really great" oil while I give mine oil that is "fine".

As far as fuel economy is concerned, I get poorer fuel economy when I drive my wife's car than she gets when she drives the car. I don't think that it has anything to do with the oil.

As far as $25 for an oil change, you obviously have the oil changed for you and do not do the work yourself. I can change my PSD for $18 and it takes 14-15 quarts. My gassers only cost $8. But this helps me to understand your financial analysis. The numbers that you run for yourself will not work for me.

 

RUSTY7OF100:
Again, your information is incomplete and dated. There is a world of difference between the PTFE used in products like Slick 50 and SynLube. The PTFE in SynLube is produced by Shamrock Technologies (nanoFlon) and the colloids are 0.3-1.0 microns. This is far smaller than any conventional filter would be able to trap. There will be NO oil filter clogging, even with a SynLube filter that is more efficient than any conventional oil filter out there. Additionally, if you had read further under Q&A, you would have found out that SynLube is a lyophilic sol which means that the colloids have a polar attraction to the liquid they are suspended in. The colloids in SynLube will never settle out. Again, no. The implementation of Moly here is inert. SynLube has an extremely low reactivity rate and it does not form any acids that the additive package does not take care of. Acid levels in samples of SynLube after its service life is over are always lower than conventional dino after 3-5K miles. The service life of SynLube (3K hours/150K miles/10 years) is, I'm told, extremely conservative.
Again no. If there were any such problem I'd know about it because I have enough miles on the oil that there would have been engine problems by now. There are none. Remember that an oil does not actually change viscosity. Indeed the viscosity index of SynLube is 200, far higher than conventional dino oil so it has less tendency to change. A 5W50 oil will flow (pour point) like a 5W and the film strength will be like a 50W oil. SynLube has no problem protecting bearing surfaces.
If your experience was typical, the military wouldn't be using synthetic lubes just about everywhere. There'd be no need to do so. If dino oil were as good as you say, there be no Marvel Mystery Oil either. Obviously, you are happy with what you're using because you are satisfied with the service it provides. I will not attempt to challenge you on that point. I just prefer that you decide to continue using what you use because it works for you rather than to make inaccurate statements about SynLube.

JSCHIRA:
All I can say is that you are one sensitive guy. I never got "Churchy". If I remember correctly, you stated that synthetics are better for extreme conditions but that you are served very well by dino lubes and would not benefit from any change. I considered the statement you took issue with to be a logical progression of that thought. There was no effort to demean anyone who does not like synthetic lubes.

As far as gas mileage goes, the claims I made were based on results obtained with SynLube in the engine and gearbox. My car is EPA rated at 21/25 and overall, since day 1, my average gas mileage is just under 27 MPG for driving that is 75% mixed city/suburban driving, not expressway miles.