valve train tapping again
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Texas
valve train tapping again
I can't keep these adjustable roller rockers tight. I think it's the passenger side now.
Any ideas? How many miles should I be able to drive without readjusting these things.
Erson adjustable aluminum rockers and stands with a Crane Hyd. Roller lifters, cam and custom Smith Bros. pushrods.
It has never been over 6000 RPM, and usually runs well below 4000RPM.
Any tips for adjusting these things. Do I need to adjust all 16 again, turning the engine by hand as when I first assembled it? That's a bit toughr on an installed and running motor.
Thanks,
Any ideas? How many miles should I be able to drive without readjusting these things.
Erson adjustable aluminum rockers and stands with a Crane Hyd. Roller lifters, cam and custom Smith Bros. pushrods.
It has never been over 6000 RPM, and usually runs well below 4000RPM.
Any tips for adjusting these things. Do I need to adjust all 16 again, turning the engine by hand as when I first assembled it? That's a bit toughr on an installed and running motor.
Thanks,
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Ohio
I have the HD Dove versions on my race car. I check them once a year for the heck of it. NEVER are they out of spec. I turn it 6200 all day.
I figure they are about the same design, but I have heard of problems with others. I really crank on the jam nut after I adjust them. Maybe a dab of loctite may help them from running loose.
Larry
I figure they are about the same design, but I have heard of problems with others. I really crank on the jam nut after I adjust them. Maybe a dab of loctite may help them from running loose.
Larry
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Lead Driver
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From: Texas
The last few times, it was the same pushrod that was loose and it was easy to find. Very loose rod and adjusting nut. I then torqued them all pretty good and there was no issues for a whle. I just checked them all again, and I cannot find the loose one. Maybe my noise is somthing else.
It's always something...
It's always something...
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i had an engine do this one time.........what i had to do was, after i adjusted the valve lash to where it felt tight, i'd let it sit for awhile, go back later and check it again, for some reason it was pumped up and bleeding down.......
if your push rods arent bending, and your rocker arm studs arent pulling out of the head, thats the only thing i can think it could be..........i suppose the aluminum expanding and contracting when hot and cold could cause this but thats really reaching for it...........let us know when you figure it out, now you made me curiouse........
if your push rods arent bending, and your rocker arm studs arent pulling out of the head, thats the only thing i can think it could be..........i suppose the aluminum expanding and contracting when hot and cold could cause this but thats really reaching for it...........let us know when you figure it out, now you made me curiouse........
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Lead Driver
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From: Texas
This may show my ignorance, but I have not adjusted any "lash"? I think that's because I'm running hydraulic lifters, but I could be mistaken. I just went by the install instructions from Crane for the cam and lifters.
The Ersons came with little instruction.
The Ersons came with little instruction.
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From: Evanston, WY
Gtex,
Lash is the air gap between the rocker arm and the valve tip in a solid lifter engine. On a hydraulic lifter engine there is typically no gap, because the lifters are set with a preload during the adjustment process. On a solid lifter engine lash is checked periodically, on a hydraulic lifter engine it is almost never checked once set properly.
-Scouder
Lash is the air gap between the rocker arm and the valve tip in a solid lifter engine. On a hydraulic lifter engine there is typically no gap, because the lifters are set with a preload during the adjustment process. On a solid lifter engine lash is checked periodically, on a hydraulic lifter engine it is almost never checked once set properly.
-Scouder
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Lead Driver
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From: Texas
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Lead Driver
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From: Ohio
Usually you set them to zero "lash" and then add 1/2 turn or so to put .06 preload on the lifter. Any less and it will be loose and tick.
Larry
Larry
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yes i'd say it's a little of all of the above.
it's always mechanical lifters that need periodic lash adjustments whild hydraulics don't...unless your using adjustable rockers with hydraulics.
from the factory, hydraulics rocker arms are non adjustable, but when you add adjustables you tighten them down as previously mentioned.........
what can happen is, when the valve is closed, and you tighten the adjuster to where its tight, sometimes the plunger in the lifer isnt toally bottomed.it feels tight then bleeds off later creating too much lash and they tick like crazy........which was a problem i was having........adjust them like the above poster mentioned and see if that solves it.
it's always mechanical lifters that need periodic lash adjustments whild hydraulics don't...unless your using adjustable rockers with hydraulics.
from the factory, hydraulics rocker arms are non adjustable, but when you add adjustables you tighten them down as previously mentioned.........
what can happen is, when the valve is closed, and you tighten the adjuster to where its tight, sometimes the plunger in the lifer isnt toally bottomed.it feels tight then bleeds off later creating too much lash and they tick like crazy........which was a problem i was having........adjust them like the above poster mentioned and see if that solves it.
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I agree with the others, sounds like you didn't put enough preload on the hydraulic lifters.
.060" sounds about right, but I can't be sure... check with Crane for what those lifters can take.
In the past, with regular lifters and high-RPM, they would pump up and the valves would stay off the seat. Some people would adjust for almost no preload to keep the "pump-up" from ruining their motors (at least, I've heard of a few people doing this, YMMV)... in reality, they were getting valve float, and they should have just gotten better/dual springs...
With yours, I doubt you are going to have that particular problem
Check with Crane for how much to preload them.
.060" sounds about right, but I can't be sure... check with Crane for what those lifters can take.
In the past, with regular lifters and high-RPM, they would pump up and the valves would stay off the seat. Some people would adjust for almost no preload to keep the "pump-up" from ruining their motors (at least, I've heard of a few people doing this, YMMV)... in reality, they were getting valve float, and they should have just gotten better/dual springs...
With yours, I doubt you are going to have that particular problem
Check with Crane for how much to preload them.
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Lead Driver
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From: Texas
I don't believe the Crane instrucstions provided a value. They simply stated to tighten the adjuster until the pushrod would no longer turn freely, then tighten another 180 degrees IIRC. What does that value represent, and how do you measure it?
If I didn't have the preload set correctly, would it have run quietly for a while, then got noisy? Doesn't seem right.
If I didn't have the preload set correctly, would it have run quietly for a while, then got noisy? Doesn't seem right.
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Originally posted by gtex
I don't believe the Crane instrucstions provided a value. They simply stated to tighten the adjuster until the pushrod would no longer turn freely, then tighten another 180 degrees IIRC. What does that value represent, and how do you measure it?
If I didn't have the preload set correctly, would it have run quietly for a while, then got noisy? Doesn't seem right.
I don't believe the Crane instrucstions provided a value. They simply stated to tighten the adjuster until the pushrod would no longer turn freely, then tighten another 180 degrees IIRC. What does that value represent, and how do you measure it?
If I didn't have the preload set correctly, would it have run quietly for a while, then got noisy? Doesn't seem right.
Figure out the thread pitch on the adjuster. The "when the pushrod doesn't turn freely" means full contact. Take a dial caliper and see what the distance between two threads is on the adjuster, then divide by 2 (180 degrees is half a turn, obviously)... that'll be the lifter preload.
The valve tips, rocker roller tips (I think you have those), cam, etc all have high spots from machining. When they wear off, there will be more lash... so I would think, yeah, it will be quiet and then tick later.
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From: Long Island USA
Originally posted by krewat
so I would think, yeah, it will be quiet and then tick later.
so I would think, yeah, it will be quiet and then tick later.
Adjuster nut? You mean the lock nut came loose?
I had a 390 start ticking on me.... and it got worse and worse and worse. Found the cam rounded out... took over 10K miles before it wasted itself... check your stuff now before you lose everything
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Lead Driver
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From: Texas
Yeah, my adjuster locking nut came loose on one rocker I think twice before. It actually came off once. I have since torqued them tighter (about 50ft-lbs). They were all tight on this last check.
I have a hard time seeing the roller cam getting rounded off, particularly with hydraulic lifters. I've matched the complete valve train with Crane components, except for the Erson rocker assemblies.
I gues I should just go through the adjusting procedure again. But it's much harder with the engine in the truck. I'll have to pull the plugs and put a ratchet on the crank bolt.
I'm concerned that I'm carrying too much oil in the valve covers. I'm not sure what year my block or dipstick is. It says it's full, but if that's an older dipstick I should probably run a quart over full, no?
I have a hard time seeing the roller cam getting rounded off, particularly with hydraulic lifters. I've matched the complete valve train with Crane components, except for the Erson rocker assemblies.
I gues I should just go through the adjusting procedure again. But it's much harder with the engine in the truck. I'll have to pull the plugs and put a ratchet on the crank bolt.
I'm concerned that I'm carrying too much oil in the valve covers. I'm not sure what year my block or dipstick is. It says it's full, but if that's an older dipstick I should probably run a quart over full, no?
Last edited by gtex; Dec 16, 2003 at 03:06 PM.